{"id":2460,"date":"2025-10-21T16:45:06","date_gmt":"2025-10-21T13:45:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/?p=2460"},"modified":"2025-10-21T23:09:36","modified_gmt":"2025-10-21T20:09:36","slug":"conversation-with-yevhen-klopotenko","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/rootedness-en\/conversation-with-yevhen-klopotenko\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation with Yevhen Klopotenko"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/creators.spotify.com\/pod\/profile\/magicworld\/embed\/episodes\/--e38112q\/a-ac59hi1\"> <\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: Yevhen Klopotenko on the power of Ukrainian traditions, rootedness and borshch \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/3Gss3GF9zPUnMogqHWEIlt?si=Ns339dIfQlCiRIi1UkltMg&#038;utm_source=oembed\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong>Guest of the episode: celebrated chef, restaurateur, creative entrepreneur, and ambassador of Ukrainian cuisine, Yevhen Klopotenko.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Yevhen Klopotenko on the power of traditions, rootedness and borshch \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" width=\"1102\" height=\"620\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/FOzU9KmbAB4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><br>Transcript of conversations<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Greetings! I&#8217;m <strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>, and this is <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity: who we were, who we became, what we have, and who we can be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We search for answers in folklore and in conversations with remarkable representatives of our nation. Today, our guest is <strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong> \u2014 a celebrated chef, restaurateur, creative entrepreneur, and ambassador of Ukrainian cuisine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Good afternoon, Yevhen!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Good afternoon!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Each episode of our project is devoted to one of the values that define the Ukrainian people. And today, I\u2019d like to invite you to talk about a value we call <strong>\u201crootedness.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not a word we use every day, but it captures something deeply important \u2014 one of the fundamental qualities that has helped us survive through difficult times. Rootedness is about preserving our culture and traditions despite all the adversities Ukrainians have faced.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While preparing for this episode, we reflected on what \u201crootedness\u201d means. It can be described as the <strong>continuity of cultural forms, customs, beliefs, and behaviors<\/strong> passed down from generation to generation, even in the hardest historical periods.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This idea of rootedness is closely tied to the sense of belonging to a nation \u2014 to preserving and passing on traditions, to our identity, which is exactly what we explore in this project.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So my first question is: what does \u201crootedness\u201d mean to you, and how do you understand it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know, when I talk with you, you always manage to open familiar ideas in a new way. \u201cRootedness\u201d \u2014 I\u2019ve honestly never thought of it as a <em>value<\/em>. I would\u2019ve called it <em>continuity<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it\u2019s a great word, really. You always manage to show new sides of something that feels so essential for Ukraine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, \u201crootedness\u201d \u2014 well, if we go into the etymology, it\u2019s about <em>roots<\/em>. The deeper the roots, the stronger and more expansive the growth. Like with a tree \u2014 its vast root system connects and interacts underground.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s probably the best metaphor for how I feel about it. It\u2019s something you can\u2019t really explain \u2014 you just sense it. You feel comfortable, at peace in a certain place, because somehow you <em>belong<\/em> there. That\u2019s probably what rootedness is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think it\u2019s tied to many things \u2014 the transfer of information through DNA, our genetic code, our collective social memory. Things we may not consciously remember, but we <em>feel<\/em> them. For me, it lies somewhere between reality and metaphysics \u2014 something we can\u2019t fully study yet, but we can sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In many ways, it\u2019s like myths \u2014 an attempt to describe what we can\u2019t rationally explain. It\u2019s a way to make sense of the world. And I think rootedness works the same way \u2014 it\u2019s how we describe what we all, deep down, feel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly \u2014 the word \u201crootedness\u201d literally comes from \u201croot,\u201d and at its core, it\u2019s about traditions. Traditions are what stay with us from childhood.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So let\u2019s talk about your childhood. What traditions were part of your life growing up?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think my family is a good example of how the Soviet Union \u2014 and before that, the Russian Empire \u2014 tried to erase or replace our roots.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I was a kid, my parents were a typical post-Soviet family. We didn\u2019t celebrate much \u2014 just the two of them, really. There were no real traditions. It all felt a bit\u2026 lost.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then my mom, who was a schoolteacher, began teaching ethnography. She started learning and rediscovering things. Remembering how her own childhood celebrations looked.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And slowly, she brought them back \u2014 we\u2019d make <em>kutia<\/em> (a traditional Christmas dish), prepare twelve dishes for Christmas Eve, make dumplings, hide wishes inside them. That became part of our family again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My dad, meanwhile, taught me how to cook borshch \u2014 because his father had taught him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes, the Soviet Union killed many traditions, but maybe that loss created a hunger \u2014 a desire to understand what we had once lost.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I began asking questions, I learned things from my mom \u2014 how my grandmother used to bake a huge Easter loaf, share it with everyone, bake a leg of lamb or pork in clay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So my mother had traditions as a child. But by the time I was born, they\u2019d almost disappeared.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019m rediscovering them now \u2014 through her memories, through food, through stories.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For instance, my grandfather used to say \u201ckandyor.\u201d He\u2019d tell me, \u201cYou can\u2019t cook kandyor.\u201d I always wondered what that meant. Recently, I visited Cherkasy region, where my dad was born, and found out \u201ckandyor\u201d is actually a traditional dish, similar to <em>kulish<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s a kind of porridge \u2014 a simple, hearty dish people used to eat across generations. My grandfather still said the word but didn\u2019t even remember what it referred to. The meaning had faded.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I cooked it again with my father \u2014 in the same place where he was born \u2014 and showed him how to make <em>kandyor<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You realize traditions can survive as echoes \u2014 in old words, gestures, fragments. They live somewhere deep inside us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why I\u2019m now learning to celebrate Christmas properly, to understand the meaning behind the dishes and customs, to create something that feels truly <em>Ukrainian<\/em>, but still relevant today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We even started new traditions \u2014 like baking pies and sharing them on Independence Day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s all part of reviving what was lost. I\u2019ve always felt connected to the past, even if I couldn\u2019t express it before. I used to speak Russian, but deep down I always felt I was a continuation of something Ukrainian.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speaking of that \u2014 you\u2019ve mentioned before that your family spoke Ukrainian, then you switched to Russian, and later returned to Ukrainian. Was that a conscious decision, or something that came naturally \u2014 like your roots speaking through you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Actually, when the television law was introduced back in 2016, it really worked \u2014 and I think we should keep making laws in that same spirit. It required that 80% of television content be in Ukrainian. But at the time, all the hosts still spoke Russian.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They asked, \u201cSo, who even speaks Ukrainian?\u201d<br>And I said, \u201cI do.\u201d<br>Everyone looked at me \u2014 \u201cOh, you?\u201d<br>Yes, me. There was one more person, and that was it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So they said, \u201cThen you\u2019ll be the main host.\u201d And that\u2019s how it started.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A few months later, when the show finally aired, I saw myself on screen \u2014 speaking Ukrainian. And at that moment, I realized: <em>that\u2019s me.<\/em><em><br><\/em> That was the real me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I looked at myself and thought, <em>Why am I even speaking Russian? Who am I pretending to be?<\/em><em><br><\/em> It just hit me. I needed to see it from the outside to understand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And after that \u2014 well, a long, complicated process began. But that was the turning point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s such an interesting moment \u2014 about rootedness itself. Those roots, that continuity \u2014 did they come to you through your parents? Was it the family traditions, the love for Ukrainian food, borshch, Christmas? Did you learn all that by talking to your parents?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yes \u2014 bit by bit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tell me this: can rootedness be lost and then rediscovered? Or must it always be with you, somewhere deep inside?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">No, I think it\u2019s always there. You can choose to explore it, nurture it, love it \u2014 or just ignore it. That\u2019s all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I believe everyone has it. It just takes different forms. It\u2019s like researching your past, tracing your roots \u2014 it\u2019s not that hard, really.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once you start, you begin to understand where you come from, what you\u2019re made of, and who you are. It\u2019s an amazing feeling.<br>And when you go deeper into it, everything starts to make sense. You feel that continuity again \u2014 restored.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Many people never even think about it. But once they do, they change. They become who they were always meant to be.<br>And that\u2019s beautiful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It can fade or blur, but it never disappears \u2014 because it lives inside you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Which Ukrainian tradition feels closest to you? Maybe a holiday one?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hmm\u2026 traditions. Which one? Let me think.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d say <strong>hospitality.<\/strong> That\u2019s probably my favorite.<br>Because wherever you go in Ukraine, people immediately set the table for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Just recently \u2014 around Christmas and New Year\u2019s \u2014 my friends called and said, \u201cWe\u2019re coming over!\u201d<br>I told them, \u201cDon\u2019t come, I don\u2019t want to cook anything.\u201d<br>An hour later \u2014 they were on their way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I got up, started cooking, and by the time they arrived, I had ten dishes ready.<br>They stayed five minutes. And I stood there thinking, <em>Why did I do all this?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But that\u2019s just how we are. It\u2019s in our DNA \u2014 that need to treat guests, to share what we have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not just a habit \u2014 it\u2019s something sacred. That act of giving, of sharing. It\u2019s universal across every region.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I visit my grandmother \u2014 she\u2019s 95, lives in northern Zhytomyr region, in a small village near Ovruch \u2014 she always cooks for me. Eight different dishes in little clay pots.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I tell her, \u201cGrandma, you didn\u2019t have to.\u201d<br>And she says, \u201cHow could I not?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you call it a tradition or a behavioral pattern, I don\u2019t know \u2014 but it\u2019s something real, something heartfelt. It\u2019s the most sincere and genuine thing we have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And another tradition after every feast \u2014 singing. You must encounter that often during your expeditions. Do you sing yourself?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Honestly, not yet. I haven\u2019t gotten to that stage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are so many traditions that were simply part of life back then.<br>People ate \u2014 and then asked, \u201cWhat now?\u201d<br>\u201cLet\u2019s sing.\u201d<br>It was natural.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Or take <em>Ivan Kupala<\/em> \u2014 people gathered, celebrated, flirted, had fun. It was beautiful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Nowadays, we tend to formalize everything \u2014 saying, \u201cYou should do it this way, exactly like this.\u201d<br>But originally, singing was spontaneous \u2014 a way to talk, to share feelings, to express joy or pain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was communication.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, we don\u2019t really have that need anymore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because now everyone\u2019s on their phones.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. Phones, TVs \u2014 that\u2019s the new normal. And honestly, that\u2019s fine. The world changes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think we need a mix \u2014 to keep what\u2019s valuable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I don\u2019t sing much, but when everyone else starts, I get emotional. Maybe too emotional.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You\u2019re probably the quiet, calm one \u2014 but I get sentimental.<br>When someone starts singing, it hits me \u2014 sometimes even makes me sad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe that\u2019s something I still need to work through.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But preserving this \u2014 passing it on in some form \u2014 that\u2019s crucial.<br>I don\u2019t yet know what form that should take, but it\u2019s deeply important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By the way, since we\u2019re talking about folklore\u2014let\u2019s jump ahead a little. One of the reasons folklore is what it is, is because there\u2019s never a single, identical version of anything. There\u2019s no identical song or identical fairy tale, because every storyteller adds something of their own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it\u2019s the same with food. Every cook, every homemaker, has their own <strong>borshch<\/strong> recipe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Absolutely. A hundred percent. Every household has its own version.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it\u2019s a bit like a singing tradition \u2014 that\u2019s how I think of it. It\u2019s so alive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I love listening to people sing, especially the funny ones \u2014 the playful songs. There are so many! Some are shamelessly funny, but so real. People blush when they sing them \u2014 they start with something tender, something about a girl, about pain\u2026 but the truly fun ones are for those who aren\u2019t afraid to let go. There\u2019s a whole world in those songs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We couldn\u2019t possibly skip the topic of <strong>borshch<\/strong> in this episode, because it\u2019s one of the key symbols of our traditions and roots.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Every nation has certain dishes that define its identity: pasta and pizza for Italy, sushi for Japan, burgers for the U.S.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For Ukraine \u2014 it\u2019s borshch. Now it\u2019s even on UNESCO\u2019s list of intangible cultural heritage, thanks in large part to your efforts to popularize Ukrainian cuisine \u2014 and borshch in particular. Why borshch?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because borshch reflects <em>us<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019re all different \u2014 yet united by borshch. And that\u2019s the beauty of it. We all make it differently, but it\u2019s still <em>the same borshch.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s funny \u2014 you can argue with someone, disagree completely, and then both of you go home and eat borshch. It brings us together, whether we realize it or not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If we go deeper, I\u2019ve been studying the roots of borshch. I want to understand its historical continuity \u2014 how it began in Kyivan Rus, how it evolved with new ingredients, new technologies, through wars and upheavals \u2014 and what it became today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The earliest versions were simple \u2014 water or fermented broth with herbs or wild plants like hogweed. It was called \u201cborshch\u201d from the Old Slavic word for <em>shoots<\/em> or <em>greens<\/em>. According to one theory, it came from <em>borshchivnyk<\/em> \u2014 hogweed \u2014 which people used to boil and eat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That was long before potatoes or beets appeared here. Over time, new ingredients changed the dish \u2014 green borshch with sorrel, later red borshch with beets and tomatoes. But the essence stayed the same.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Generations passed, ingredients changed \u2014 but borshch remained. It\u2019s always been with us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The problem was that we didn\u2019t fully <em>value<\/em> it. For a long time, Ukrainians couldn\u2019t love something until it was validated abroad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once borshch was recognized by UNESCO, suddenly everyone rediscovered it \u2014 as if saying, <em>\u201cNow it\u2019s official, now it matters.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s how it\u2019s always been \u2014 we often wait for others to acknowledge what we already have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After UNESCO recognition, Ukraine added around 25\u201330 more dishes to its intangible heritage list \u2014 before that, there wasn\u2019t even a proper process. Communities across the regions started reviving their culinary traditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So borshch became our flagship. It opened the door for everything else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it\u2019s not just food anymore \u2014 it\u2019s a cultural code, a symbol.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Look at pizza in Naples \u2014 it\u2019s a few hundred years old. Borshch, meanwhile, goes back a thousand. It\u2019s ancient, fundamental, and uniquely ours.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And what about other Ukrainian dishes? Which ones do you think are underrated and deserve more recognition in the world?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are hundreds!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, <strong>varenyky with cherries<\/strong> \u2014 people often think they\u2019re made with sour cherries, but actually they\u2019re with sweet cherries, and that\u2019s a completely different taste.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Bureks<\/strong> \u2014 from Crimean Tatar cuisine \u2014 are another masterpiece, absolutely beautiful in their simplicity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And <strong>syrnyky<\/strong> \u2014 cottage cheese pancakes \u2014 also deserve attention. I\u2019m still researching their origins. There\u2019s evidence of fermented cheese (<em>nab\u0456l<\/em>) in the 18th century, but not syrnyky themselves. So I think the tradition of using fermented cheese is much older than the dish we know now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Honestly, you\u2019ve just pulled me into my favorite topic \u2014 I could talk about it for hours!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But at this stage, I\u2019d rather not flood the world with hundreds of Ukrainian dishes at once. Let everyone just eat <strong>borshch<\/strong> for now \u2014 and remember it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s enough to start with. Once they fall in love with borshch, the rest will follow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And what do people abroad say about it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When people first try it? Oh, they\u2019re shocked, of course. Italians, for example \u2014 they don\u2019t eat beets at all. So it\u2019s no surprise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In warm countries, it\u2019s even stranger. I always laugh when I explain it \u2014 imagine this: everyone boils beets, drains the water, peels them, and eats the beets. And we, Ukrainians \u2014 we boil the beets and <em>eat the water!<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Everyone else throws it out, but we make it the main dish. It blows people\u2019s minds. It\u2019s a whole new experience for them \u2014 new emotions, a new flavor universe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the North, yes, they eat beets, but not in this form. So for them it\u2019s fascinating \u2014 this idea that you can eat the <em>broth<\/em> from the beets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s like how in Denmark they eat herring with milk \u2014 completely normal there, but here we\u2019d say, \u201cEw, no way!\u201d Yet if you try it, it\u2019s actually amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s the same with borshch. Foreigners know all the ingredients \u2014 beets, cabbage, potatoes \u2014 but when they taste them together, it\u2019s something entirely new.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s the beauty of it. It\u2019s a reflection of a nation\u2019s uniqueness. A hundred percent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not yet as globally famous as ramen, but we\u2019re getting there. One day, borshch will stand right beside ramen \u2014 or maybe ramen will have to stand beside <em>us.<\/em> It\u2019s that powerful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When studying Ukrainian traditions, I\u2019ve noticed something interesting \u2014 the way our traditions are similar across regions. It\u2019s one of the things that truly unites Ukrainians.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I once read an ethnographic study by Fedir Vovk \u2014 early 20th century. He described the layout of traditional Ukrainian houses, and concluded that no matter the region \u2014 east, west, north, or south \u2014 the structure was the same. The stove, the table, the benches, even the way furniture was arranged \u2014 identical.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Later, when I visited old houses in different parts of Ukraine, I saw it myself \u2014 the same planning, down to the smallest details.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I\u2019m curious \u2014 in your food expeditions, have you found something similar? Something that connects every region \u2014 a truly Ukrainian element?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yes \u2014 food. And right now, that\u2019s exactly what I\u2019m researching.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s going to sound strange, but\u2026 it\u2019s <strong>cabbage.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I know, it sounds funny \u2014 \u201cCabbage? Really?\u201d<br>But yes. The one thing that unites all Ukrainians is cabbage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Think about it \u2014 bread used to be placed on cabbage leaves. Cabbage is in borshch. In the north, people bake cabbage in the oven \u2014 it\u2019s called <em>husak<\/em> in Chernihiv region, <em>snidynska kapusta<\/em> in Volyn, and so on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In Rivne, they slow-bake it overnight and serve it in the morning. In central Ukraine \u2014 Cherkasy, Dnipropetrovsk, Kirovohrad \u2014 there\u2019s <em>kapusniak<\/em> (cabbage and millet stew).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And of course, sauerkraut \u2014 everyone eats it. Everywhere.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then <em>holubtsi<\/em> \u2014 stuffed cabbage rolls \u2014 every region has them, but each makes them differently. In Odesa, they mix cabbage leaves with corn grits. In Halychyna, the rolls are small, delicate; in the north \u2014 huge and hearty. Some make them with sauerkraut, others with potatoes. But always \u2014 cabbage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even in old recipes, the word <em>kapusta<\/em> (cabbage) was used as the name of a dish, not just the ingredient. Like borshch once was called <em>burak<\/em> (beetroot).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes \u2014 cabbage. Simple, ancient, universal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Interestingly, carrots weren\u2019t part of the picture \u2014 the modern orange carrot appeared only about 150 years ago. But cabbage \u2014 it\u2019s everywhere in every era, every text, every recipe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And alongside cabbage \u2014 <strong>millet.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Before potatoes came to Ukraine, millet was the main carbohydrate. People made <em>kulish<\/em> (millet porridge), <em>kapusniak<\/em> (millet and cabbage soup), even dumplings stuffed with millet. Later, when potatoes appeared, millet started disappearing, but the older recipes still survived \u2014 like <em>hartanachka<\/em> in the north, where they mix millet and potatoes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes \u2014 cabbage and millet. Two humble ingredients that unite the entire country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You could even say it\u2019s our national slogan:<br><strong>\u201cUkrainians are united by cabbage \u2014 and by the borshch we put it in.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The 19th-century historian and ethnographer <strong>Mykola Kostomarov<\/strong> also noted that Ukrainians have a deep attachment to their past \u2014 to the traditions passed down from their grandparents and great-grandparents.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And <strong>Ivan Ohienko<\/strong> wrote that many of our pre-Christian myths merged with Christian traditions to form a unique <em>folk religion<\/em> \u2014 one deeply tied to the <strong>cult of ancestors.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, <em>kutia<\/em> (the ritual wheat dish) isn\u2019t just festive \u2014 it\u2019s also memorial, linked to ancient rites of remembrance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. There\u2019s even a belief that <em>kutia<\/em> was one of the very first dishes humanity ever made.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Originally, it was just <strong>boiled wheat<\/strong> \u2014 simple and pure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Over time, people began adding honey, nuts, poppy seeds \u2014 but at its core, it\u2019s still that same boiled wheat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s basically the story of civilization: as people settled, they cultivated new crops, discovered new flavors, and began mixing them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes, <em>kutia<\/em> might truly be our oldest surviving dish \u2014 the most ancient of all Ukrainian foods.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> project is created with the support of the <strong>Ukrainian Cultural Foundation<\/strong> and published in various formats. So choose what you like \u2014 listen, watch, read our episodes, and share your thoughts in the comments, because in this project, every voice matters. And of course, subscribe to our channels and pages so you don\u2019t miss anything interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">All the links are in the description below.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, speaking of traditions \u2014 their preservation through centuries \u2014 it\u2019s fascinating that they\u2019ve been passed down almost unchanged. And it was probably this <em>immutability<\/em>, this <em>rootedness<\/em>, that helped ensure our cultural continuity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But today, in such a fast-changing world \u2014 with constant shifts in economy, culture, and technology \u2014 many say that traditions need to be adapted. What do you think? Is it even possible to renew traditions?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Absolutely. And that\u2019s exactly what I try to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">See, if you treat tradition like a stone \u2014 something you just set down and never touch again \u2014 it\u2019ll eventually disappear. Give it fifty years, and it\u2019ll end up behind glass in a museum.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But tradition should live and breathe \u2014 it has to reflect its time. So if you want to keep it alive, you need to <em>reinterpret<\/em> it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Like, imagine singing Ukrainian songs \u2014 but through karaoke at a party. You\u2019re still singing, still keeping that tradition alive, just in a modern format.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I really believe that in the past, religion and the church played that role \u2014 they united people. People would come together for temple feasts, for weddings, for holidays. These weren\u2019t just rituals \u2014 they were opportunities to connect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People didn\u2019t work five days a week then. Life was structured differently. The church was a place to rest, to meet, to talk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was like our modern gas stations before COVID \u2014 where people would come late at night for coffee, chat in the parking lot, hang out. That was the community hub.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So when people say, \u201cWe can\u2019t change tradition,\u201d I don\u2019t agree. It has <em>always<\/em> changed \u2014 it just takes different forms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Like, take the old \u201cleading the goat\u201d ritual \u2014 you can\u2019t literally walk a goat through Kyiv today! But you can dress up, sing, make it playful. That\u2019s the point \u2014 adapt it to how people live now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If we force people to memorize 25 old songs word-for-word, no one will do it. But if we make it fun, interactive \u2014 people will join in. Otherwise, it\u2019ll just die out from boredom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It seems technology has made that harder \u2014 before, people had to socialize face to face. Now, you can just comment under a video and feel connected.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So how do we keep that balance \u2014 between authenticity and reinterpretation \u2014 when popularizing traditions?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Honestly? You don\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Traditions don\u2019t care what we say about them \u2014 they evolve naturally. You can\u2019t \u201ccontrol\u201d a tradition. It lives its own life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Who decides what\u2019s authentic or what\u2019s changed too much? No one. Everyone just does what feels right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tradition is like a root \u2014 it connects you to something essential. You can change the surface, but the root stays the same.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, the <em>vyshyvanka<\/em> \u2014 the embroidered shirt. People used to wear it only for special occasions. Now, we can make modern versions you can wear every day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, it\u2019s not a symbol \u2014 it\u2019s just clothes I live in. Some are fancy, some are casual, but all of them carry meaning. That\u2019s how you make tradition real \u2014 by living it, not just wearing it on Independence Day or Vyshyvanka Day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I cook a Ukrainian dish, I don\u2019t need to wear an embroidered shirt just because it\u2019s \u201ctraditional.\u201d That\u2019s symbolic, but it\u2019s not the essence. The essence is that I <em>live it<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So no \u2014 there\u2019s no fixed balance. Everyone should just do what they can. The main thing is to <strong>preserve and pass on<\/strong> the tradition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Learn what it was \u2014 and then make it your own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s true. Especially today, when everything competes for attention \u2014 even traditions are part of the content race.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So how do we get young people interested in them? How do we make traditions appealing \u2014 not just something from our grandparents\u2019 time or ancient history?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. You can\u2019t inspire anyone with something dull, lifeless, or humorless.<br>Traditions have to <em>feel alive<\/em> \u2014 they should be fun, engaging, joyful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Look at <strong>Halloween<\/strong> \u2014 it\u2019s not really an ancient \u201ctradition,\u201d it\u2019s just a fun social event that everyone enjoys, and because of that, it <em>works<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We have similar things \u2014 like <strong>caroling<\/strong>, but somehow it\u2019s treated differently here. People sometimes see it as \u201casking for money,\u201d which is completely wrong. It\u2019s a joyful, symbolic act \u2014 sharing energy, singing, wishing well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right now, we\u2019re in a period of <strong>rethinking traditions<\/strong>. Some will remain, some will evolve, others may fade \u2014 and that\u2019s natural.<br>The most important thing is to <em>talk about them<\/em>, to <em>practice<\/em> them, to keep them present. What happens next \u2014 we\u2019ll figure it out later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d like to remind our audience that today on <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> we\u2019re talking about <strong>rootedness<\/strong> with <strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If we imagine Ukraine fifty or even a hundred years from now \u2014 a bit of futurism here \u2014 which traditions, in your opinion, will definitely survive?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Weddings \u2014 definitely.<br>Funerals \u2014 definitely.<br>Christmas and Easter \u2014 for sure.<br>Those will stay with us, no question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But weddings today are nothing like they were a hundred years ago \u2014 back then, they lasted several days and followed a strict ritual sequence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s true \u2014 but in some ways, not much has changed. I know people who spend <em>three months<\/em> planning their weddings! (laughs)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, the form has evolved, but the essence remains. The tradition will stay, just in a modern version.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some customs like <em>Malanka<\/em> \u2014 the New Year\u2019s masquerade \u2014 might fade or transform, but others could be revived. I actually think we\u2019ll see the <em>return<\/em> of many old traditions gaining new strength.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But if we speak pragmatically, holidays like Christmas and Easter \u2014 those are here to stay. They\u2019re more than religious; they\u2019re social glue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For two thousand years, faith has been part of our identity \u2014 it\u2019s deeply rooted in people\u2019s consciousness. I don\u2019t think that can disappear, not even in a hundred years. It\u2019s a fundamental layer of who we are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. And even before Christianity, there were centuries of older spiritual practices \u2014 and somehow, they too survived and transformed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right. I think traditions will continue to evolve with the times. For example, harvest festivals \u2014 once, everyone knew when the harvest began and ended.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, you tell someone to \u201cgo harvest at the end of August,\u201d and they say, \u201cWhat do you mean? Harvest was over in mid-July!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Life changes, timing changes \u2014 but the meaning remains.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And of course, the <strong>war<\/strong> is changing everything. It\u2019s reshaping our culture and daily life. Many traditions will adapt, and new ones will be born out of this experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[<strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Most of the traditions that survived were preserved through <strong>folklore<\/strong> \u2014 passed down through ritual songs, epic tales, fairy tales, and proverbs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I know that mythology often inspires your cooking \u2014 that you even create dishes influenced by ancient myths.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But tell me \u2014 have any specific works of folklore or folk motifs inspired you in your creative process?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Myths, yes \u2014 they\u2019re incredibly powerful. They\u2019re full of hidden meanings, codes, connections. You can spend your whole life exploring them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As for folklore \u2014 there\u2019s one funny song I always remember:<br><em>\u201cThe fish danced with the crayfish, the parsley with the parsnip.\u201d<\/em><em><br><\/em> No one knows where it came from \u2014 some say it first appeared in a cartoon about the Cossacks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But honestly, if you ask me whether there\u2019s a lot of <em>food<\/em> in Ukrainian folklore \u2014 I\u2019d say, not really. Not directly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The work that truly pushed me to start reviving our cuisine wasn\u2019t folklore itself, but something that <em>felt<\/em> like folklore \u2014 something that carried that same spirit of collective creativity and authenticity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And from there, it just grew.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I wouldn\u2019t say I\u2019m \u201cinspired\u201d by folklore in a direct way.<br>It\u2019s more like \u2014 I live inside it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s in the air, in the rhythm, in how people talk, cook, and tell stories.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And maybe that\u2019s what folklore really is \u2014 not just songs or tales, but the living pulse of a people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dances? Fairy tales?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fairy tales\u2026 not really my thing. They\u2019re more about a way of life, a reflection of behavior.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rituals, though \u2014 yes. For example, we started celebrating <em>Olia from Airu<\/em> \u2014 a holiday named after herbs (<em>airu<\/em> means sweet flag, a marsh plant used in folk rituals). Those kinds of things inspire me more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because myths \u2014 they\u2019re like living people. Characters with emotions, choices, and destinies. Through them, you can understand how people once lived \u2014 what they did, where they went, what they believed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you take, for instance, a myth about sleep or dreams, you might discover herbs used for better sleep, go find them in the forest, cook something from them \u2014 and suddenly, you\u2019re continuing that ancient practice in a modern way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fairy tales, on the other hand, are different. Someone once invented them \u2014 they\u2019re mostly symbolic, not literal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If a <strong>myth<\/strong> is half true and half imagined, a <strong>fairy tale<\/strong> is mostly imagined.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A myth explains the world, and a fairy tale is often just a fragment of a myth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. Myths are the foundation. They carry a lot of hidden knowledge \u2014 moral, natural, cosmic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Everything else \u2014 songs, dances \u2014 those are fragments, reflections.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Take \u201c<strong>Kryvyi Tanets<\/strong>\u201d (<em>The Crooked Dance<\/em>) \u2014 it\u2019s both a dance and a song. Beautiful, but I can\u2019t really <em>extract information<\/em> from it, not the way I can from a myth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Myths feel much more powerful \u2014 stronger, deeper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, we have songs about everything. But I\u2019ve never really looked for \u201cculinary folklore\u201d in songs. If anything, I\u2019ve found mentions of popular dishes \u2014 dumplings with cherries, borshch, porridge \u2014 but nothing detailed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Proverbs and sayings, yes \u2014 there\u2019s some wisdom there. I look into them sometimes, but not too deeply.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then there are the <strong>molfars<\/strong> \u2014 Carpathian folk healers and seers. I wouldn\u2019t call that \u201cfolklore\u201d exactly, but the way they interact with nature \u2014 using herbs, fire, water \u2014 that\u2019s incredibly inspiring. It\u2019s a real, living tradition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speaking of proverbs \u2014 perfect timing. It\u2019s time for our traditional game \u2014 the <em>Folklore Chest<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today\u2019s theme is Ukrainian <strong>proverbs and sayings<\/strong>. The rules are simple: I\u2019ll start a proverb, and you finish it \u2014 either the traditional way or however you like. Ready?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019m definitely losing this one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Let\u2019s see!<br>\u201cWhat roots, such and\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026husk.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Close enough. \u201cRemember the old, and the new\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026love.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. \u201cOur parents would say: cracklings need\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026porridge.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Correct! \u201cWithout salt, without bread, there is no\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026borshch.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Almost \u2014 \u201cno lunch.\u201d<br>\u201cWhen there\u2019s bread in abundance, then under the willow\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026paradise.\u201d And now \u2014 about borshch: \u201cEat borshch with mushrooms, hold your tongue\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026behind your teeth.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly! And without willow and viburnum, there is no\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201c\u2026Ukraine.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Perfect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Let\u2019s circle back to folklore. You often go on expeditions, searching for food traditions. I imagine you must also encounter rituals, local songs, maybe even stories. Do those experiences inspire you too \u2014 and how do they influence what you do to popularize Ukrainian culture globally?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s a huge, complex process \u2014 a real ethnographic journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Each expedition feels like stepping into another world. Every region has its own rhythm, its own habits. In one place, people pray before eating; in another, they don\u2019t even think about it. Somewhere, there\u2019s a rule that the first man must enter the house \u2014 in another, no one cares.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s fascinating. And yes, these details inspire me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, <strong>the table<\/strong> is the center of all traditions. Everything \u2014 every song, ritual, celebration \u2014 somehow leads to the table, or begins there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Food is where traditions live.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, at Christmas we found a custom where <em>kutia<\/em> (sweet wheat pudding) is thrown at the ceiling \u2014 if it sticks, it\u2019s a good omen. Even that simple act connects food to ritual, to belief, to joy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s what inspires me \u2014 not just as a chef, but as a Ukrainian. Seeing how deeply our people connect food with meaning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Every village has its own way, its own \u201ctrick,\u201d its own philosophy. That\u2019s the beauty of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Time for a quick blitz round \u2014 seven short questions, seven short answers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What character trait do you value most in people?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Kindness. Always kindness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s the root of everything good. If a person is kind, everything else falls into place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And the worst trait?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vanity. The need to show off, to prove how great you are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ego, basically. You can\u2019t live without some ego, but too much of it ruins people \u2014 causes conflicts, scandals, competition where it\u2019s not needed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What inspires you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They drive me crazy sometimes \u2014 but they inspire me too.<br>When someone comes up and simply says, \u201cThank you for what you do,\u201d or smiles, or shares their story \u2014 it fuels me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That sincerity, that gratitude \u2014 it reminds me that I\u2019m not alone. That what I do matters.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Every trip across Ukraine renews me. It\u2019s hard to explain \u2014 it\u2019s like breathing in the country itself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What scares you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My own thoughts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They\u2019re constantly moving, restless \u2014 creating, analyzing, doubting.<br>Sometimes they get too loud, too intense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then they pass, and I breathe again. So yes \u2014 my thoughts are what scare me most.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What helps you stay in the moment \u2014 truly present in life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Food. Always food.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When things go wrong, I think back \u2014 maybe five days ago \u2014 to a simple piece of halloumi cheese with oregano and olive oil. Or a tomato my mom picked \u2014 not perfect-looking, but real.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I think about food, everything becomes lighter. Food brings me back to reality. It grounds me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And what\u2019s the main goal or mission of your life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s very simple.<br>My mission is to help people see the world more broadly <strong>through food<\/strong> \u2014 not just to discover new flavors, but to realize that the world itself is kinder, brighter, simpler, and tastier than it seems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, cooking is a form of service. I want to serve people, help them feel something real.<br>If I can do that, I\u2019m happy. That\u2019s my number one purpose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you had to describe Ukrainians in three words, what would they be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sincerity. Generosity. Love of freedom.<br>And\u2026 borscht. (laughs)<br>That\u2019s four, but it has to be there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">(laughs) Thank you.<br>I saw on your social media that you were recently in Japan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Japan seems like one of those countries that\u2019s managed to balance ancient traditions with modern life.<br>From your experience, do they really succeed in keeping that harmony \u2014 and how?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It feels like they\u2019ve built a system where <strong>tradition flows naturally into everything else<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In Ukraine, we often try to <em>attach<\/em> tradition to modern life \u2014 like, here\u2019s our Tesla, our smartphones, our tech \u2014 and then, somewhere apart, an old man in an embroidered shirt stirring borscht by a fire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But in Japan, it\u2019s seamless.<br>They can live surrounded by neon lights, bullet trains, and digital everything \u2014 and still, right next to that, someone sits in traditional clothes, eating quietly, practicing something ancient. It\u2019s natural for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They don\u2019t see a contradiction between the past and the present \u2014 we often do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even small details show it. For example: they have no trash cans on the streets \u2014 and no trash either. They simply decided, <em>if there are no bins, people will take their trash home.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It sounds small, but it changes everything \u2014 behavior, mindset, respect.<br>And that philosophy applies to everything \u2014 food, time, work, culture.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If a restaurant closes at 9:00, you can\u2019t stay until 9:01.<br>At first, it feels harsh, even aggressive. But then you realize \u2014 it\u2019s just <strong>discipline<\/strong>.<br>If they say they\u2019ll meet you at 7:30, they\u2019ll be there at 7:30. Exactly. Not earlier, not later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Their whole system works that way.<br>And traditions too \u2014 they don\u2019t <em>separate<\/em> them from modern life. They simply live them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So rootedness and tradition are part of their values \u2014 just like ours, but maybe expressed differently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And probably that\u2019s what helped them build such a strong cultural identity \u2014 something recognizable all over the world.<br>Take anime, for example \u2014 it\u2019s not just entertainment, it\u2019s a whole aesthetic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly.<br>For us, anime is \u201ca genre.\u201d For them \u2014 it\u2019s just <em>everyday culture<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They didn\u2019t invent it as a \u201ctrend.\u201d It\u2019s just what they do \u2014 their natural form of storytelling.<br>And then the world picked it up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They never said, \u201cWe\u2019ll make anime to promote Japan.\u201d<br>They just made what they loved \u2014 and it became global.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, in a sense, what we see \u2014 the samurai image, anime, sushi \u2014 these are all simplified symbols that the world adopted. But they became global because, in Japan, those things are part of daily life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yes. That\u2019s the key difference.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In Ukraine, we often <em>try<\/em> to show our best side \u2014 to make it look perfect, polished.<br>We dig up an old dish, like <em>mandryky<\/em> (little dumplings), and bring it to the world as a cultural exhibit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Japanese don\u2019t do that. They just show what they already have.<br>It doesn\u2019t have to be \u201cthe best\u201d \u2014 it just has to be <em>theirs<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I once visited a restaurant abroad, and the chef hesitated to show me the kitchen because it wasn\u2019t spotless.<br>I told him, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t want you to clean it. I want to see it <em>as it is<\/em>.\u201d<br>But he couldn\u2019t \u2014 because we\u2019ve all been taught to hide imperfection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Meanwhile, Japan proudly shows rice with pickles \u2014 nothing fancy \u2014 and the world admires it.<br>We have bread and lard \u2014 the same simplicity \u2014 but we hide it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They say, \u201cThis is who we are.\u201d<br>And we say, \u201cNo, wait, let\u2019s tidy up first.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s the difference.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So first we have to <strong>accept ourselves<\/strong> \u2014 get comfortable with our own culture, traditions, and roots \u2014 before showing them to the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. That\u2019s the starting point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because now, many Ukrainians abroad are trying to open \u201cUkrainian restaurants\u201d \u2014 and they struggle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Why? Because they don\u2019t fully understand what Ukrainian cuisine <em>is<\/em> to them personally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They all start with the same list \u2014 borscht, dumplings, varenyky, holubtsi \u2014 and then get stuck.<br>Because beyond that, they\u2019ve never explored what they truly eat, what feels authentic to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People serve borscht with pampushky (garlic rolls) everywhere \u2014 but when was the last time they did that at home? They don\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I ask, \u201cWhy show it that way abroad if it\u2019s not how you actually eat it here?\u201d<br>Tradition isn\u2019t about pretending \u2014 it\u2019s about being real.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When we can show <em>our truth<\/em> \u2014 even if it\u2019s imperfect \u2014 that\u2019s when the world will really see Ukraine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At its core, it\u2019s about what\u2019s inside.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right\u2014and that\u2019s exactly the process we\u2019re going through as a country. So it\u2019s good we\u2019re talking about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you had to put it in percentages, where are we on this journey toward truly understanding who we are?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Give it another 25\u201330 years. By around 2050, God willing, we\u2019ll be where we want to be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s just how change works: a generation needs about 20 years to grow up with new ideas for them to become the norm. Think about avocados\u2014basically unknown here until around 2010. Fifteen years later, totally normal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s the same with culture: if business and media keep pushing something, it accelerates. If, say, the whole world talked about mandryky\u2014and we did too\u2014ten years might be enough. If not, it takes longer. For our cuisine and culture to become widely used and loved, everyone around has to talk about it. Then it\u2019s ten years; otherwise, it\u2019s twenty-five.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In recent years, many Ukrainians moved abroad; some came back, others stayed and built new lives. We\u2019ve had waves of emigration since the 19th century. With regard to traditions and rootedness\u2014is this a plus or a minus? Will we lose something, or will we discover something?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s a topic for hours, but simply put: earlier waves\u2014say the 1950s and early 1990s\u2014left with a set of traditions and froze them in time. Visit those communities today and it often feels like nothing has changed since they left. That\u2019s not a criticism; they preserved what they had.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, ask what people took with them in 2022. Whatever they left with is what they\u2019ll preserve. But here at home, a huge cultural revival has been happening\u2014new music every week, new books, new conversations about values, mythology, food, clothing, style. We\u2019re arguing, experimenting, creating. It\u2019s alive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Someone who left in March 2022 and hasn\u2019t been back will return to a completely different country. Ask them about new slang, new artists, new cultural references\u2014they might not know them. They\u2019ll feel like part of a \u201cthird wave\u201d diaspora that, culturally, may be the smallest\u2014because they didn\u2019t bring much with them and missed what\u2019s been maturing here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why our job now is to create and systematize: develop content, codify what matters, let go of what doesn\u2019t, and build values. So when any diaspora\u2014first, second, third wave\u2014comes back, they see: \u201cAh, this is Ukraine. This is what I always felt but couldn\u2019t name.\u201d That will be powerful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That was the problem with Soviet and Russian rule\u2014they tried to replace traditions and dishes, to rewrite memory and erase what was truly ours. Now we have to restore the original\u2014like cleaning an old painting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. And in a way, the empire can now sit and watch the results of its own meddling\u2014because we see it clearly and we\u2019re undoing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And now, our \u201cArtifact\u201d segment, where we ask guests to leave a small memento. Yevhen is known for dishes that aren\u2019t just interesting, but genuinely delicious\u2014and his website has many beautiful, flavorful recipes. You also run \u201cGuest Dinners,\u201d where you create special dishes inspired by mythic characters. So for this episode, I\u2019d like to ask you to compose a special \u201cRecipe for Rootedness.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Here\u2019s paper and a pen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Let\u2019s do it. \u201cRecipe for Rootedness.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Since we\u2019re also a podcast, please comment as you write.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Alright. We start with \u201cParents,\u201d \u201cOur Memories,\u201d and \u201cOur Desires.\u201d Add \u201cEmotional Anchors.\u201d Then fold in \u201cImagination about the Future.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">First, put \u201cParents, our memories, and our desires\u201d into a pot. Mix thoroughly. Pour in the emotional anchors\u2014that means choosing a feeling or image you love (say, a festive outfit, a song, a smell) that ties your desires to your family memories. Then glaze it all with thoughts about the future\u2014so the mix can shape you, and maybe even your community, going forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s it: remember what you loved, what your parents loved, what you want now\u2014tie it to strong emotions\u2014and let it point you toward the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you. We\u2019ll share this recipe in the link below the video. Friends, try it\u2014and tell us whether it helped you feel more rooted in your life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Yevhen Klopotenko<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bon app\u00e9tit. Friends, today our guest was Yevhen Klopotenko\u2014chef, restaurateur, creative entrepreneur, and ambassador of Ukrainian cuisine. Tell us in the comments what you discovered today. Do you believe rootedness is one of the key values of the Ukrainian people? Did you enjoy the episode?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can watch <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> on YouTube, listen on your favorite podcast platforms, and read on magicworld.com.ua, where you\u2019ll also find popular science essays by folklorist Maryna Demediuk and recordings of folklore performed by well-known actors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you for your attention\u2014and see you next time.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp;Guest of the episode: celebrated chef, restaurateur, creative entrepreneur, and ambassador of Ukrainian cuisine, Yevhen Klopotenko. Transcript of conversations Nik Lysytskiy Greetings! I&#8217;m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity: who we were, who we became, what we have, and who [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":2293,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[125,115,102],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2460","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interview","category-rootedness-en","category-rootedness"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Conversation with Yevhen Klopotenko - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/rootedness-en\/conversation-with-yevhen-klopotenko\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Conversation with Yevhen Klopotenko - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"&nbsp;Guest of the episode: celebrated chef, restaurateur, creative entrepreneur, and ambassador of Ukrainian cuisine, Yevhen Klopotenko. 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