{"id":2543,"date":"2025-10-21T21:03:49","date_gmt":"2025-10-21T18:03:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/?p=2543"},"modified":"2025-10-21T23:07:54","modified_gmt":"2025-10-21T20:07:54","slug":"rozmova-z-valeriyem-markusom","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/interview\/rozmova-z-valeriyem-markusom\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation with Valerii Markus"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/creators.spotify.com\/pod\/profile\/magicworld\/embed\/episodes\/--e38112q\/a-ac59hi1\"> <\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: Valerii Markus on justice, struggle, and leadership \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/2uq1ISpg6YRn8fx2JenWFV?si=JM0g2HEGQciPEtkEzv0vog&#038;utm_source=oembed\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Guest of the episode: Ukrainian soldier, writer, and popular blogger Valerii Markus.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Valerii Markus on justice, struggle, and leadership \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" width=\"1102\" height=\"620\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/BVFx0k9tfDc?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript of conversations<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Hello, I\u2019m <strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>, and this is <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity: who we were, who we\u2019ve become, what we have, and what we can be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We search for answers in folklore, as well as in conversations with prominent representatives of our nation.<br>Today our guest is <strong>Valerii Markus<\/strong> \u2014 a soldier, writer, and popular blogger. Good afternoon, Valerii.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Good afternoon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Each episode of our project is dedicated to one of the core values that define the Ukrainian nation \u2014 one of the key elements of our identity.<br>Today, I\u2019d like to talk with you about <em>justice.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Let\u2019s talk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> What does justice mean to you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Justice is the harmony of society\u2019s existence. We are all biological beings, and each of us has an inner sense of what is fair.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even if we stay silent, at some point we begin to feel when something unjust is done to us \u2014 and when that injustice isn\u2019t addressed or compensated, it builds up inside a person.<br>Inside one person, or within society as a whole. Think of the French Revolution \u2014 that tension eventually explodes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether on the scale of an individual or an entire nation, it always erupts.<br>So justice is a natural, inner human need \u2014 a matter of psychology.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it\u2019s also important to distinguish between different <em>levels<\/em> of justice. The higher we rise up the social ladder, the more those ideas of justice differ from one level to another. Justice in our personal relationship is one thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When you\u2019re responsible for a group of people \u2014 often without direct contact \u2014 your actions reflect a very different kind of justice. Because you\u2019re not in direct communication with them, nor they with you. And the higher you go, the greater that difference becomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The criteria of justice shift with scale and context.<br>Understanding that is one of the key elements of leadership. And justice itself changes with each level of responsibility.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When you interact with people directly \u2014 that\u2019s one thing.<br>When you command 3,000 or 5,000 people, or you\u2019re a public official responsible for an entire community \u2014 that\u2019s another form of leadership, a different way of communicating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So justice takes many forms.<br>In daily life it looks one way, at work it\u2019s another, and in politics it\u2019s something else entirely. There are many such variations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Next question. In one of your interviews, you mentioned that because of the videos you filmed and shared from the front, you were expelled from the ATO three times. That was back in 2015, right?<br>And you came back three times. Why? Was it a desire to see things through to the end?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> No, not at all. It wasn\u2019t about any lofty moral or ethical ideals. I simply wanted to fight \u2014 and I wanted to make videos.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One contradicted the other, but somehow I managed to find a balance. That\u2019s all. I was twenty, maybe twenty-one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, I wanted to record my participation in such a large historical event \u2014 not just as someone who happened to be there, but in a role that carried a sense of honor and respect.<br>Come on, we\u2019re talking about a twenty-year-old kid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So there was nothing high-minded about it \u2014 just a desire to show how \u201ccool\u201d I was at war, and to document my involvement in an important moment from a respectable position. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The army is a conservative institution, especially back then, when social media was something distant and unfamiliar to most. Suddenly someone \u2014 me \u2014 was showing small pieces of the army\u2019s inner life to the outside world. Not exposing secrets, just ordinary, everyday things, but even that was new.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The leadership didn\u2019t like it. It didn\u2019t cause harm, but for people used to total control, it looked like a loss of authority.<br>So the battalion commander ordered me sent back to base.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was sent, but a week and a half later the company commander brought me back \u2014 someone had to do the work, after all.<br>Maybe he thought I wasn\u2019t the worst soldier in the unit, so he compromised and sent me back to the front.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But somehow, word got back to the battalion commander that I was there again. During the next rotation, he sent me to the rear once more \u2014 or enrolled me in a training course somewhere far away, in the Mykolaiv region.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I went. Spent a few months. And then \u2014 back to the ATO.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s how it went.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By the way, that quote you mentioned comes from a really old interview \u2014 probably ten years ago. I must have been 23 or 24 then, and I likely said it to sound more impressive.<br>Like, \u201cThey kicked me out for that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But honestly, it was all trivial. It doesn\u2019t really matter how I told it \u2014 the story itself was insignificant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> If you were to start blogging and filming today \u2014 the present-day Valerii Markus, with all your life and military experience \u2014 where would you begin?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t start at all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> You wouldn\u2019t start a blog?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> No. It\u2019s just not interesting to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Throughout your life, you\u2019ve probably heard phrases like \u201cDon\u2019t stand out,\u201d \u201cFollow the chain of command,\u201d \u201cThis is the army \u2014 there\u2019s order here.\u201d How did you react then, and how do you react now?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> When people talk about subordination \u2014 it doesn\u2019t happen often, but when it does \u2014 I usually ask them what <em>subordination<\/em> actually means. And it turns out they don\u2019t really know themselves.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> But did it affect you \u2014 back then or now \u2014 when people said, \u201cFollow the chain of command,\u201d or \u201cDon\u2019t stand out\u201d?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> It didn\u2019t bother you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Not at all. I can\u2019t even imagine why it would.<br>If someone says something like that, I can still do the opposite if I believe it\u2019s necessary. Why should that affect me?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Have you ever experienced friends or close people turning away from you \u2014 not supporting you \u2014 because you went against the system or criticized someone?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> No, thank God. Among friends \u2014 never.<br>Maybe some people on the periphery, yes. That\u2019s life: some come, some go. Some are temporary.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But that\u2019s not about friendship. Real friends are different \u2014 they\u2019re family.<br>There\u2019s never been a case like that among friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, people who are just passing through your life \u2014 that\u2019s another story. Even if they don\u2019t support you, I wouldn\u2019t take it personally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because I firmly believe that no one owes me anything.<br>No one is obliged to support me \u2014 especially not at their own expense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When someone does something that \u201cthe system\u201d dislikes, and you publicly back them, the system immediately begins to see you as an enemy too. Why would anyone need that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s someone else\u2019s fight, not yours. Even if you sympathize, you\u2019re not required to take up arms beside them \u2014 especially if you don\u2019t fully understand the situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why I never paid much attention to such things.<br>I don\u2019t think that just because I believe I\u2019m fighting for a just cause, everyone who disagrees with me is automatically a traitor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even neutrality doesn\u2019t make someone \u201cbad.\u201d<br>If I\u2019ve chosen my own path, that\u2019s <em>my<\/em> decision, <em>my<\/em> problem.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whoever wants to stand beside me \u2014 great. Whoever doesn\u2019t \u2014 I still thank them, as long as they don\u2019t stab me in the back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Because that would be unjust.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Why? Why is it unfair? What does \u201cfair\u201d even mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it always bursts out \u2014 it always does.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> So usually, when you criticized the system or went against it, you understood that, essentially, you were a lone warrior \u2014 that it all depended on you alone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> You could put it more modestly. We were simply trying to do our job effectively.<br>If some rules made that impossible, we sometimes found ways around them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cFighting the system\u201d sounds too grand.<br>We were just trying to do our work well \u2014 that\u2019s all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> And what motivated you to do it well? What was the mission behind that drive?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> To build a solid case for myself \u2014 a good reputation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Rebellion, protest, or even just criticism always involves a certain risk.<br>Have you ever felt like there was a line you couldn\u2019t cross, because there\u2019d be no way back?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> That line\u2019s already been crossed \u2014 and everyone just galloped forward without even noticing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Can justice exist without struggle?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> That sounds like a slogan, and it\u2019s hard to discuss slogans constructively.<br>What does \u201cjustice without struggle\u201d or \u201cjustice through struggle\u201d even mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If one child hurts another and is punished \u2014 is that justice?<br>Probably, yes.<br>Was there a \u201cstruggle\u201d there? No.<br>That\u2019s why we need examples, something specific.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> But in your life, haven\u2019t you fought for justice \u2014 for yourself, for your family, your friends, your country?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> No.<br>When you find yourself in a position where you set the rules, the idea of justice stops being something spontaneous or abstract.<br>What people call \u201cjustice\u201d is a tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You either know how to use it \u2014 or you don\u2019t.<br>It\u2019s like a drill: if you use it where it\u2019s needed, everything works; if not, you\u2019ll cause damage.<br>Justice works the same way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As for \u201cjustice toward myself\u201d \u2014 what does that even mean?<br>That I deserve better treatment, and if I don\u2019t get it, I should feel resentment?<br>No. I\u2019m not twelve years old.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The real issue is when people create rules that lead to injustice.<br>That\u2019s when I draw conclusions about them \u2014 they\u2019re just poor leaders.<br>It shouldn\u2019t be that way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> So something needs to change.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Well, yes. You just have to change it \u2014 not overthink it, just do it.<br>Alright, let\u2019s have a drink to that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> But are you personally doing anything to change things in the country?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> In areas where I actually have influence \u2014 yes, I try to make a difference.<br>But grabbing at everything is pointless.<br>That\u2019s it. I don\u2019t hold grudges against anyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Here\u2019s an example \u2014 just yesterday, the wife of one of our soldiers called me.<br>He\u2019d been wounded and lost his limbs. After that, he was assigned to the 47th Brigade.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She said he\u2019d fought there, been wounded there \u2014 but once he was injured, they just dumped him into the 30th Brigade.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is that fair? No.<br>Is the 30th Mechanized Brigade supposed to be some kind of shelter for the wounded and unfit?<br>Is that fair to the people already serving there? To his brothers-in-arms?<br>It\u2019s not fair to anyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s more than unfair.<br>This man had ambitions, dreams, convictions, a future. His beliefs and moral values led him to us.<br>He grew as a fighter within our brigade. We trained him, he trusted us, became part of our unit \u2014 and the moment he broke, like a toy, they threw him away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To call that \u201cunfair\u201d doesn\u2019t even begin to describe it.<br>And he\u2019s not the only one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When we speak about injustice as if it\u2019s just a natural occurrence, we strip away responsibility from those who caused it.<br>There are specific people behind every such decision \u2014 first of all, the unit commander.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Either he made the decision himself or chose not to interfere when someone above him made it.<br>Because no one fought for these soldiers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Did anyone stop to think how they\u2019d feel after being cast out?<br>You were given human lives \u2014 and you used them like disposable tools.<br>The tool broke, and you tossed it aside.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">No \u2014 it\u2019s your duty. These people are the ones doing the work with their own hands, while you sit behind a monitor in a basement.<br>You have to care about what happens to them next.<br>Because they are people \u2014 human lives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Justice is a tool \u2014 and in this case, it was used horribly wrong.<br>The result? Hundreds, if not thousands, of soldiers feeling betrayed, humiliated, broken.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some lost their support system, their team, their identity.<br>A man without legs sits in his room, a flag of the 47th Brigade hanging on the wall \u2014 he doesn\u2019t want to be \u201cfrom the 30th.\u201d<br>He\u2019s broken.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Why? Because one commander simply doesn\u2019t care anymore.<br>This isn\u2019t just injustice \u2014 it\u2019s indifference.<br>An indifference that\u2019s crippling our society, the consequences of which we\u2019ll be dealing with for the next ten years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yes, it\u2019s injustice. But injustice has names. It has ranks and titles attached to it. These are decisions made by people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Justice is a tool \u2014 one that can either give people strength and motivation to live and work, or break them completely.<br>And many have been broken.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When soldiers get injured and try to get discharged, the medical commission process (VLK) is pure hell.<br>It\u2019s a systematic act of humiliation.<br>You\u2019ve lost your legs, you\u2019re in a wheelchair, and you expect \u2014 rightfully \u2014 to be treated with respect.<br>You did what others were afraid to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You sacrificed your health, and yet they treat you like a nuisance, as if you\u2019re wasting their time.<br>This is the highest form of injustice \u2014 one that cripples the nation itself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And again, behind this injustice are names, positions, and decisions that created this humiliating system.<br>When those who deserve awards don\u2019t get them \u2014 and those who don\u2019t deserve them do \u2014 everyone sees it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because the awards system itself is also a tool \u2014 a manifestation of justice.<br>You perform a heroic act \u2014 you deserve recognition.<br>You fulfill your duty \u2014 you deserve honor.<br>You show courage when others turn away \u2014 you deserve respect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But that\u2019s not how it works.<br>So you go through one assault, then another \u2014 and you start asking: \u201cWhat else do I have to do to get this little medal?\u201d<br>Then you see some girl jogging near Cambridge receiving one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is that injustice? Of course.<br>But it\u2019s not abstract \u2014 it\u2019s the result of specific people\u2019s actions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If we strip away the word \u201cinjustice,\u201d we have to name names: <em>so-and-so, a damn fool, gave an award to someone who didn\u2019t deserve it.<\/em><em><br><\/em> Meanwhile, countless others did deserve it \u2014 even more than the person handing it out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Why didn\u2019t they get it? Because their commander didn\u2019t like them, or they were too independent, or simply inconvenient.<br>What we call \u201cinjustice\u201d is always the sum of specific actions by specific people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> You were a master sergeant \u2014 and you\u2019ve said that justice is a tool.<br>Did you use that tool in your work, as a measure of your approach?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> As much as my resources allowed, yes.<br>But not everyone I nominated for awards actually received them.<br>Still, I can say with certainty: no one undeserving ever did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once, I brought a batch of award nominations to the brigade command.<br>All that was left was to write down the names of those being approved.<br>While I was there, that bag of awards just sat untouched \u2014 because apparently, no one cared enough.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I transferred to another brigade, I later saw on social media that almost all those awards were given out by the next commander \u2014 to people who probably worked hard, but didn\u2019t take part in assaults.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And this was a <em>storm brigade.<\/em><em><br><\/em> If you have a hundred awards to give, you must set priorities clearly.<br>Those who take the greatest risks should receive them first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> The fact that you call justice a tool \u2014 when did that realization come to you? When you were already a master sergeant, or before?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Honestly, I just put it into words now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>That\u2019s a good idea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>This maxim came out of dialogue. When you work with something long enough, you start to see the underlying algorithm\u2014you read patterns from consequences, from how things manifest. A person might not understand what gravity is, but over a lifetime they learn that if you jump from the fifth floor, you die.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You might not know the formulas for gravity, acceleration, or mass, but you see countless examples: the egg you dropped as a child shattered. Justice works the same way. When you come into the army from the very bottom\u2014not dropping in as a ready-made platoon commander who becomes a company commander two weeks later\u2014you absorb things from empirical experience and from how people react around you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These simple truths reach you almost at the sensory level. You just know you shouldn\u2019t jump from that fifth floor\u2014even if you can\u2019t define gravity. Likewise, you grasp that if you do X, this group of people will be alienated.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they\u2019ll turn against you. And you command them. Next time you give an order, at best they\u2019ll say, \u201cYes, sir,\u201d walk away, and do nothing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then they\u2019ll make up reasons why it didn\u2019t happen. That\u2019s it. Those foolish moves\u2014which you could call injustices\u2014have predictable consequences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Work doesn\u2019t get done. The unit\u2019s effectiveness drops. Morale drops.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The unit\u2019s trust in you collapses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>So injustice leads to loss.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>To a loss of trust.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>And then that can lead to even worse outcomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>After that, anything can happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>Your first book, \u201cFootprints on the Road,\u201d became a bestseller\u20145,000 copies in three weeks. And now it\u2019s over a hundred thousand, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>Definitely more than a hundred thousand. I don\u2019t know the exact number.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>Did you expect that kind of success when you wrote or published it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>We hoped for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>What do you think drew readers to it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>I don\u2019t know. You\u2019d have to ask the readers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>You self-published it with partners and even recorded a long video about how to publish a book yourself. You turned down offers from Ukrainian publishers. Why?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>Because the revenue split they proposed seemed unfair.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>In your book, the main character says: \u201cIt was foolish people, in their endless desire to regulate everything, who invented good, evil, justice, and similar nonsense. Justice is not inherent to this world.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>He says that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>Do you still agree with it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>No. Not anymore. Back then, I hadn\u2019t led large teams. I wrote that when I was 22 or 23. I didn\u2019t have that kind of experience and I hadn\u2019t yet realized that justice is a tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A collective, a society, can\u2019t function without justice. It collapses. That\u2019s why justice was invented.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It doesn\u2019t exist in nature; it\u2019s not a natural phenomenon. It\u2019s a construct humans created.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it works. It exists in our heads. It\u2019s a social phenomenon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why justice exists. I wrote that people invented it\u2014I still believe that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another matter is that I called it \u201cnonsense,\u201d and that\u2019s not true. Maybe in a million years, after some evolutionary shift, it\u2019ll look like nonsense. But not now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s a human-made social construct as essential as money, the economy, the constitution. None of that exists in nature either. We invented it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And these constructs inside us shape our lives and reality. So no, it\u2019s not nonsense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s essential for human society to exist and function. When people in charge don\u2019t understand that, the results are tragic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>You wrote the book a long time ago. I thought about that earlier quote, and here\u2019s another one:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cThe real heroes in this war are few, and few know them. Few have the appropriate awards\u2014because to receive awards requires not only a feat, but also a tongue, agile and moist. These are special people. They are naturally fair. And this is more a gift from God than a character trait. Being around such people makes you truly begin to believe that justice exists.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>Something\u2019s off in how that\u2019s being read.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>So you still believed justice existed back then?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>Let me orient it properly. \u201cThe real heroes are few, and few know them\u2026\u201d and so on\u2014I remember. I get what you\u2019re pointing at.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What I was trying to express is exactly what I said earlier: you see patterns before you can articulate a theory. You can\u2019t yet write a law that explains the phenomenon, but through experience you start to catch regularities and learn how to work with them. That passage is about people who, at a visceral level, sense what justice is and live it out. Their deep awareness of justice shapes their worldview and their moral code.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They may not consciously analyze it that way, but I\u2019ve met people like that. Many of them are gone now. That\u2019s who I was writing about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>That\u2019s probably the archetype of a hero\u2014already a hero in folklore terms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>It\u2019s the archetype of the father\u2014someone consistently fair. Even when he punishes you, the way he does it leaves you respecting him more afterward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You feel it was just. You were punished, but even your inner defenses can\u2019t convince you that he\u2019s a scoundrel. That\u2019s a talent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The real leader administers punishment in a way that doesn\u2019t humiliate your dignity. On the contrary, if you accept it with dignity, your self-respect can even rise\u2014you\u2019re given a path to exit the situation honorably, maybe even to demonstrate moral or physical strength. In the team, that can actually raise your standing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s a talent. Those are true, natural leaders. And I think parts of it can be learned.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>\u201cArchetype of the Nation\u201d is produced with the support of the Ukrainian Cultural Foundation and published in various formats. If you like what we do, listen, watch, read our episodes, and share your thoughts in the comments\u2014every voice matters in this project. And of course, subscribe to our channels and pages so you don\u2019t miss anything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">All the links are in the episode description. While preparing this episode, we looked into how justice appears in Ukrainian folklore and arrived at this idea: Justice is one of Ukrainians\u2019 core ethno-mental landmarks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Ukrainian worldview is marked by a deep sense of truth, respect for fair judgment, equality within the community, and rejection of the ruling elite\u2019s or an occupier\u2019s imposition of will. Belief in punishment for wrongdoing and reward for just deeds runs through the entire folkloric tradition\u2014from mythic prose to contemporary war songs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>We said at the start this is a subjective story. A hundred years ago, a mass of people felt an injustice and, shouting \u201cTake and share!\u201d, simply seized property\u2014including from people who had earned it honestly. From their point of view, dividing it was \u201cfair.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>In our folklore, the hero usually fights injustice and confronts evil even without support. It\u2019s an inner core\u2014a conviction that truth is worth fighting for, even if the whole world is against you. Do you believe one individual can overcome injustice\u2014change the system?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>One person?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>Yes\u2014one hero.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>People don\u2019t change systems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>That only happens in fairy tales.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>A system is changed by another system. All systems are made of people. When an ecosystem forms within a system\u2014small at first but self-sufficient and strong\u2014it grows and begins to transform the host system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That can be for good or for ill.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>But can a hero inspire\u2014society, everyone?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>If someone uses that hero\u2019s sacrifice wisely, yes. That, too, is a tool. When we raise something onto a flag, we\u2019re using a tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It can inspire\u2014or it can be used to suppress or manipulate. The effects of a sacrifice aren\u2019t automatic. It depends on what the living do with it afterward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The person who sacrifices acts because of their moral system. You don\u2019t make that choice for its long-term impact\u2014you can comfort yourself with that thought, but it\u2019s infantile because you don\u2019t know. The certainty is that you must take this step now, even if you don\u2019t know the outcome, because otherwise you betray yourself. Better to risk it\u2014even die\u2014than live with that shame inside.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it\u2019s less about \u201cjustice\u201d per se and more about protecting your inner worldview\u2014your value system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>But that value system is built, among other things, on an understanding of what\u2019s fair and unfair.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Valerii Markus:<br>Everyone acts from a sense of fair\/unfair\u2014even thieves justify themselves. You think someone stealing money tells himself, \u201cI\u2019m scum; I don\u2019t deserve to live\u201d? No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Everyone finds a rationale. \u201cI stole it, and it\u2019s fair\u2014because of X, because of Y, because it was like this before, because Z. I do a lot of useful work, so I\u2019m taking this upfront.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong>:<br>In Ukrainian folklore there\u2019s a fairly clear standard of what\u2019s fair and what isn\u2019t. If we ground ourselves in those basic values, we can judge accordingly. The real question is: which side will you choose?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Look, justice is an entirely subjective matter. From a leadership perspective, the task is to define clearly what \u201cjustice\u201d means \u2014 to find the average temperature in the room, so to speak \u2014 for the team you lead, while staying true to your own moral and ethical system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you act solely to please the majority, that\u2019s one extreme \u2014 unfair treatment of individuals, like when injured soldiers are simply thrown out of the system as if they\u2019re useless.<br>\u201cYou\u2019re no longer needed.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The opposite extreme is populism: when you see what the majority wants and just give it to them for the sake of approval.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Justice is subjective. As a leader, your task is to gauge how your actions affect the team\u2019s climate \u2014 and how that reflects on you.<br>But that doesn\u2019t mean the team\u2019s sense of justice is always sound.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You might have a group of ten people who decide to \u201cdivide the loot,\u201d so to speak. From my perspective, that\u2019s wrong.<br>And if I follow their lead to satisfy their poor sense of fairness, that\u2019s populism.<br>I\u2019m no longer setting the rules \u2014 the crowd is setting them for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it\u2019s always a balance.<br>What matters most is that people at least have this inner compass \u2014 that they act guided by their own sense of fairness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019re talking about extreme cases here, thank God. I haven\u2019t faced anything that bad personally.<br>I\u2019ve worked with some difficult teams \u2014 very difficult \u2014 but I can\u2019t recall a case where communication couldn\u2019t be built, or where trust was impossible.<br>In most cases, you can find common ground, define the rules of engagement, and make it work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because there\u2019s collective justice \u2014 and there\u2019s individual justice.<br>And that\u2019s an important distinction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> It\u2019s time for our traditional game with the guest \u2014 let\u2019s open our Folklore Chest. Today we\u2019ve got proverbs and sayings about truth. Here\u2019s how it works:<br>I start a proverb, and you finish it. You can use the traditional ending \u2014 or make up your own. Ready?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Alright, let\u2019s do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> \u201cThe truth is brighter than\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> (laughs) What\u2019s so funny about it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> That\u2019s allowed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Nothing comes to mind\u2026 I\u2019ll make something up. It has to be clever and interesting \u2014 but still nothing\u2019s coming. Next one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> \u201cA lie stands on one leg, but the truth\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> I don\u2019t remember the original either, but\u2026 the truth doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Let\u2019s recall something about propaganda: \u201cNot the friend who smears honey, but the one who\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Licks it off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> \u201cThe trouble in the world is when there is no\u2026\u201d What?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Light.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> And what else?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Justice. Truth. Though\u2026 the truth isn\u2019t that interesting, is it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> \u201cEverything will pass, but one truth\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Will remain. Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> One last question before we wrap up. Are you working on a new book? I\u2019m sure many people are curious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> From time to time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Will there be a place for justice \u2014 or injustice \u2014 in it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> I haven\u2019t thought in those terms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> After this interview, will you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Let\u2019s say this \u2014 there\u2019ll definitely be moments of injustice in it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> So it\u2019ll be another personal story?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Of course. We all write about ourselves.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Alright \u2014 time for our Blitz round. Seven questions, seven quick (or not-so-quick) answers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What trait do you value most in people?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> A subtle sense of justice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> And which one do you think is the worst?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Pride.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> What inspires you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Pride.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> What frightens you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Pride.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> What helped you get through hard times in life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Pride.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> What\u2019s the main goal or mission of your life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> To get rid of pride.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> And finally \u2014 if you had to choose three words to describe Ukrainians, what would they be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Army. Language. Faith.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Valerii Markus:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> Do you think justice is one of the core values of the Ukrainian people?<br>Share your thoughts on justice in the comments.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can watch all episodes of <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> on YouTube, listen on your favorite podcast platforms, or read them at <strong>magicworld.com.ua<\/strong> \u2014 where you\u2019ll also find popular science essays by folklorist <strong>Maryna Demediuk<\/strong>, and recordings of Ukrainian folklore performed by well-known actors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you for watching \u2014 and see you next time.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Guest of the episode: Ukrainian soldier, writer, and popular blogger Valerii Markus. Transcript of conversations Nik Lysytskiy: Hello, I\u2019m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity: who we were, who we\u2019ve become, what we have, and what we can be. 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