{"id":2552,"date":"2025-10-21T21:59:53","date_gmt":"2025-10-21T18:59:53","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/?p=2552"},"modified":"2025-10-21T23:06:46","modified_gmt":"2025-10-21T20:06:46","slug":"rozmova-z-blekfish","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/interview\/rozmova-z-blekfish\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation with Blackfish"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/creators.spotify.com\/pod\/profile\/magicworld\/embed\/episodes\/--e38112q\/a-ac59hi1\"> <\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/3ntukJUTB15B5D4jdmpXLl?si=zSmR5UJJTgeOFFoXmdc21Q\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guest of the episode: rap performer Blackfish.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Blackfish on the love of freedom and rap as the voice of liberty \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" width=\"1102\" height=\"620\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/2D75kFvlgU8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript of conversations<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Hello, I&#8217;m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity. Who we were, who we\u2019ve become, what we have, and who we can be. We seek answers in folklore, as well as in conversations with inspiring representatives of our nation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, our guest is the rap artist Blackfish. Good afternoon, Mariia.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Hello.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Each episode of our project is dedicated to one of the values that define the Ukrainian nation \u2014 one of the elements of our identity. And today, I\u2019d like to talk with you about the <strong>love of freedom.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> That\u2019s interesting, because I believe freedom is one of the most defining traits of Ukrainian women.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> When preparing for each episode, we study how a particular value is reflected in folklore and try to draw certain conclusions. Regarding freedom, we came to this idea: for Ukrainians, freedom means valuing both personal and collective liberty, independence, dignity, and the right to self-determination.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The pursuit of freedom is not about separating from others \u2014 it\u2019s about the ability and the right to be a free person within the family, the community, the country, and the world.<br>So, Mariia, what does freedom mean to you personally?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> To be honest, I\u2019ll put it simply \u2014 for me, freedom means being a musician and choosing the creative form and expression I want. It\u2019s the ability to say what I want, how I want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">During the war, I felt a powerful inner need to speak my truth as a rap artist. Before that, I was a singer of a more poetic genre \u2014 songs about higher, almost sacred values. But after performing at the front in the third year of the war, something inside me changed. I realized I needed to be honest, to speak directly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At that time, I was studying at a literary school and even wanted to write a book \u2014 but instead, all that creative energy transformed into rap. It was like a ricochet. I began writing \u2014 and suddenly, I began rapping.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, freedom is about creativity \u2014 first, the freedom to feel and express as I wish, and second, the freedom to speak openly and truthfully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> And if you think back to your childhood \u2014 what were you like as a kid? Obedient, or the type to argue and stand your ground?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> It\u2019s actually a complicated story, because as a kid I was very obedient. My dad was an officer, and after finishing his military career, he worked as a miner. Now he serves again in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. My mom is a teacher, so in a family like that it was simply impossible <em>not<\/em> to be disciplined.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But when I grew older and started searching for myself as a teenager \u2014 that\u2019s when everything shifted. I realized that, as a teacher\u2019s daughter, it was very uncomfortable for me to live inside strict boundaries. That\u2019s when the rebellion began \u2014 I started expressing myself in bold, even revolutionary ways. My dad always says I raised myself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He says, \u201cYou\u2019ve become just like me.\u201d And he\u2019s right \u2014 I\u2019m definitely a daddy\u2019s girl. I have a strong character; I don\u2019t agree with things I don\u2019t believe in, and I always speak up. That\u2019s just how I am.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> So would you say your dad taught you to defend your opinion?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, he did. My mom was always the peacemaker between us because when my dad and I clashed, sparks would fly. Neither of us could be broken. My dad never compromised on what he believed was right \u2014 he really shaped my system of values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My mom, on the other hand, is a musician \u2014 softer, more creative, emotional. So I grew up between those two worlds \u2014 my father\u2019s discipline and strength, and my mother\u2019s artistry and sensitivity. I think that mix really formed who I am today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In fact, the image I have now as a rap artist feels like a continuation of that inner teenager \u2014 the one who questioned everything, who wasn\u2019t afraid to disagree with her parents or teachers. Because when you have your own opinion, you might be wrong sometimes \u2014 but it\u2019s still important to express it. That\u2019s something I learned early on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Would you say freedom, for you, is more of an inner state \u2014 or about being free from external limits and restrictions?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> For me, freedom means having your own opinion and standing up for it. Even if you\u2019re wrong, it\u2019s about being honest enough to admit it. That\u2019s also freedom \u2014 to make a mistake and own it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right now, I feel like we\u2019re living through a time of searching \u2014 for new meanings, new values. That\u2019s what my work as Blackfish is about: finding new words to describe the Ukraine I see today. Because people have changed. We\u2019re no longer the Ukraine that existed before the war.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I call that \u201cthe old Ukraine.\u201d Now we\u2019re forming a new one. I first felt that transformation at the front, when I was singing for our soldiers. The values I saw there \u2014 resilience, sincerity, love \u2014 they completely changed me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now I try to express all that through my music, to describe what\u2019s happening between the military world, the civilian world, the volunteers, the community \u2014 all of us together. I\u2019m also a volunteer myself, and that gives me another perspective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if I make mistakes along the way \u2014 that\u2019s part of freedom too. The freedom to say, \u201cYes, I was wrong,\u201d and keep going. That\u2019s what it means to be a grown person \u2014 to choose, to act, to admit, and to move forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> It actually takes a lot of strength to be able to admit your mistakes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, absolutely. Because freedom isn\u2019t just about expressing yourself. Being free doesn\u2019t mean doing whatever you want \u2014 it also means taking responsibility for your choices. If you make a mistake or your actions lead to something harmful, that\u2019s on you. You have to face it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In my family, that\u2019s sacred \u2014 you can\u2019t just forget or pretend something didn\u2019t happen. We were always taught to be accountable for our words and our actions. That\u2019s what integrity means to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> How often in your life have you had to say \u201cno\u201d \u2014 to stand up for your freedom or your beliefs?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> That\u2019s actually my favorite word. Really. I don\u2019t know why, but when I hear something being offered to me, I often react instinctively \u2014 \u201cno, no, I don\u2019t want to, I won\u2019t.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lately, I\u2019ve been feeling a kind of inner pause \u2014 I wouldn\u2019t call it weakness, more like stillness. I just don\u2019t want to take on too many new things right now. It\u2019s hard to move in every direction at once.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe I\u2019ve found a state of mind that\u2019s precious to me \u2014 or maybe, after everything we\u2019ve been through, the war just drains your emotional and psychological energy. So I\u2019m learning to say \u201cno\u201d to things that don\u2019t feel right, things that might drain me or push me into discomfort.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not always easy \u2014 people have expectations. But for me, saying \u201cno\u201d is part of staying free.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Was there ever a moment when you felt truly free? A time in your life when that feeling was at its strongest?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes. When we performed in Donbas with the cultural landing team. We spent a week there \u2014 Olya the photographer, Dima the bandura player, Valera who was our commander. It was such a close-knit group, and that trip gave me an unforgettable sense of freedom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There was something in the air there \u2014 the spirit of the East, maybe \u2014 something raw and alive. I haven\u2019t felt that same freedom since.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was also the time when we were facing one of the first major counteroffensives, and that came with both hope and disappointment. Before it started, there was this wave of pure patriotism \u2014 I remember singing with that energy, like the whole land was breathing with us. And after the setback, everything changed \u2014 there was pain, disbelief.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So now, for me, freedom feels fleeting \u2014 something you can catch for a moment, but can\u2019t hold onto forever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Do you think that freedom can also show itself in smaller, everyday things \u2014 like in how a person dresses, eats, or lives? Can willfulness show through in those simple choices?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> You know, independence \u2014 it\u2019s something deeply rooted in us, especially in Ukrainian women. I\u2019ve been thinking about this a lot. It\u2019s incredibly important for us to be heard. That\u2019s something that truly distinguishes us from the women of our enemy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ukrainian women have always been outspoken, independent, and proactive \u2014 even rebellious. Yes, our country is quite patriarchal, but everyone knows that women here have enormous influence over what men think and do. And it\u2019s not something we force \u2014 it\u2019s just the way nature works.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I remember in philology school, one of our professors in Ukrainian literature told us that Ukrainian women are descendants of the Amazons. And I love that idea \u2014 that somewhere in us there\u2019s this ancient Amazonian strength, this inner gene that gives us the courage to speak our minds without fear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can see it everywhere: in how Ukrainian women run businesses, think creatively, volunteer, and take the initiative. And most of all \u2014 in the women serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The women who chose, voluntarily, to put on a uniform and go to the front \u2014 I have enormous respect for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That courage \u2014 that will to express yourself \u2014 that\u2019s what inspires me the most.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Speaking of freedom in folklore \u2014 there\u2019s a beautiful image that comes to mind. You probably know it. It\u2019s the <em>povitrulya<\/em> \u2014 a Carpathian mythological spirit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Do you know her story?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I actually have a story related to that \u2014 I\u2019ll tell it later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Alright. The povitrulya\u2019s freedom lies in her wings. A man can only make her his wife if he steals and hides them. But if she ever finds her wings again, she immediately flies away \u2014 back to the mountains, to her sisters and her mother.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She\u2019s the embodiment of a free woman \u2014 one who values her freedom more than even her marriage. And, in general, Ukrainian folklore is full of such strong female figures. Take the <em>wise girl<\/em> archetype, for example \u2014 a character you won\u2019t find in Russian folklore. She can solve problems herself, defeat evil, even save the hero \u2014 she\u2019s an active, self-determined figure who governs her own life instead of submitting to a man\u2019s will.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That spirit has been in our DNA since ancient times.<br>And since you\u2019re a philologist, let me ask you this: how do you think Ukrainians\u2019 love of freedom shows itself in our language?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> That\u2019s a tough question \u2014 one I probably should\u2019ve prepared for. But if I think about it, I immediately recall the words of our national anthem: <em>\u201cWe will lay down our soul and body for our freedom.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To me, Ukrainians are inseparably associated with bravery and freedom. But also with deep sentimentality \u2014 a bright, creative emotionality that defines us. Courage and freedom belong equally to men and women, and that\u2019s something constantly reflected throughout our history.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019ve had countless incredible women who embodied that strength through their lives and choices. And that line \u2014 <em>\u201cBody and soul we will lay down for our freedom\u201d<\/em> \u2014 it\u2019s powerful. Because to truly live by it means not only to be ready to die for your country, but to live <em>for<\/em> it \u2014 to build, to create, to protect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think that\u2019s what we often forget: freedom isn\u2019t only about sacrifice. It\u2019s also about the will to live \u2014 to live with dignity, with meaning, and with joy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s another thing about us \u2014 our openness. Ukrainians are a welcoming people. Our rituals are all tied to renewal, to the birth of new life, to cleansing from darkness. We have so many traditions connected to light and goodness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even our talismans and protective symbols \u2014 they all reflect this constant striving toward the bright side. That\u2019s what I love about our culture: how, through our rituals, our calendar, our holidays, and our connection with nature, we keep rediscovering who we are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> And this closeness to nature probably also left a mark on how Ukrainians lived and sought freedom. In Western Europe, people mostly lived behind city walls \u2014 protected, but confined. Ukrainians, on the other hand, lived in open spaces \u2014 in villages, by rivers, forests, and wide steppes. From one side, danger could come at any time, but from the other \u2014 you could always move forward into the unknown if you wanted more freedom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Exactly. Just think of the Cossacks \u2014 how they left everything behind during the time of serfdom to become free people. They were born here, in Ukraine, but went east to the wild steppe. The Zaporizhzhian Cossacks built their community literally from nothing \u2014 from the open, empty steppe. People fled there simply to live freely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That says a lot about who we are. One of the most defining periods in our history \u2014 the very foundation of our statehood \u2014 was built on the desire to be free, to live on our own land, and to create life with our own hands. That\u2019s where our culture was shaped.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that spirit \u2014 the Cossack will, the idea of <em>Maidan<\/em> \u2014 it\u2019s still with us. It\u2019s like a tradition that never left.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> So what do you think \u2014 does this love of freedom come from the time of the Zaporizhzhian Sich, from that image of the free Cossack, or is it something even older, something more ancient in Ukrainians?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> It\u2019s hard to say \u2014 I wasn\u2019t there in ancient times, so I can only speak from what I see now. From my experience, I can say this: Ukrainians are incredibly diverse. But whenever real danger comes, we somehow manage to unite. We come together and do amazing things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At the same time, every one of us has a strong sense of individuality, pride, and character. We\u2019re all so different \u2014 sometimes even completely opposite \u2014 but still, we hold on. That\u2019s something I really admire about us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I wish we could always hold on like that \u2014 to keep finding bridges between us instead of breaking apart into little groups or echo chambers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why I can\u2019t stand this nonsense about dividing people by where they\u2019re from \u2014 like people from the East or the West, or someone from Kharkiv. Even with all the conflicts, we still find little keys to understanding each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because normal, mature, healthy people don\u2019t shout at others for being from a different region or having a different background. We respect other people\u2019s experiences \u2014 that\u2019s something deeply Ukrainian, in my opinion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, being Ukrainian means being <em>human<\/em>. I want our country to be built on the value of the individual \u2014 not on conformity, not on systems that tell everyone to be the same, like in Soviet times. We\u2019re not system people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anyone who isn\u2019t part of the system knows this: our strength lies in individuality. In creativity, in initiative, in the courage to build and to do things differently. That\u2019s why our entrepreneurs, our inventors, our volunteers \u2014 they\u2019re all unique. They don\u2019t fit molds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when someone new comes along \u2014 someone different \u2014 we still call them \u201cours.\u201d Maybe they\u2019re different, maybe they\u2019re \u201canother kind of ours,\u201d but they\u2019re still part of us. That\u2019s what unites us: even in our diversity, we recognize each other as our own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, there\u2019s still some xenophobia \u2014 I\u2019ve studied it, and we\u2019ve discussed it many times, like when I was at a philology forum in Kryvyi Rih. We talked openly about those issues \u2014 but the fact that we\u2019re talking about them, analyzing them, means we\u2019re growing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was 2012. I was in my fourth or fifth year at university, and even back then we were already talking about how certain forms of xenophobia existed among us \u2014 and sadly, they\u2019ve only gotten worse since. Russia is exploiting that masterfully, playing on our weakest points. But despite everything, we\u2019re still holding on to common sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As a philologist, I want to say this: we often focus on the language we speak, but we forget that language doesn\u2019t exist without the person behind it. Whatever language you use, what truly matters are your values \u2014 the kind of person you are and what you communicate through that language.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019m not saying this to downplay the importance of Ukrainian \u2014 I\u2019ve spoken Ukrainian all my life, I\u2019ve sung in Ukrainian for fifteen years, and I write rap in Ukrainian \u2014 but forcing it through violence or humiliation is not our way. We shouldn\u2019t build our identity through destruction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s essential to support and to understand that everyone carries some kind of trauma. People are different \u2014 neurologically, psychologically \u2014 not everyone can adapt or learn at the same pace. My grandmother in Kryvyi Rih and my grandmother in Odesa, for instance \u2014 they\u2019re completely different in how they process new things, how their minds work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We need to respect the elderly. We need to respect those who carry trauma from war or loss \u2014 their worldview has also been reshaped by pain. And that\u2019s why psychological adjustment is so important for the way our language will evolve.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If we talk aggressively, if we use language as a weapon \u2014 it only destroys. But at the same time, we can\u2019t lose the sense of its value.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Since I teach Ukrainian, I\u2019ve noticed a decline lately. I work with IT companies, business owners \u2014 and at the beginning of the war, the demand was huge. Everyone wanted to learn Ukrainian. Now, not so much. The interest has dropped.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But what\u2019s really inspiring is seeing Ukrainians abroad \u2014 those who emigrated long ago \u2014 coming back to their roots. Parents in the U.S. are now looking for teachers for their children. For example, there\u2019s a girl in New York \u2014 there\u2019s no Ukrainian school, no Ukrainian teacher, no structure. And New York is tough \u2014 the pace, the schedule. So they\u2019re turning to online lessons.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> It\u2019s the same in Kyiv.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Well, not quite like in New York. But yes, people realize they can save time \u2014 and often money \u2014 by studying online with a Ukrainian teacher.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Still, I think we need new motivation, new meanings that will encourage people to improve their Ukrainian instead of staying at a basic level \u2014 that \u201cI already know the language.\u201d Because honestly, most of us don\u2019t know it as well as we think we do. I\u2019m still learning all the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sorry \u2014 I know we started this conversation about freedom, and somehow I always circle back to language. But that\u2019s just my favorite topic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Well, language <em>is<\/em> a marker \u2014 one of the core markers of a nation. It\u2019s absolutely natural to talk about it in a conversation like this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But returning to freedom \u2014 we know this much: Ukrainians are individualists. We care deeply about our homes, our families \u2014 and yet, when danger comes, we immediately care for our entire country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And we saw that clearly in 2022.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, and we\u2019re seeing that now too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Exactly. Even though, as you just mentioned, there\u2019s a noticeable decline in interest in learning the language. People are tired \u2014 that\u2019s probably the main reason. Everyone has their own burdens, their own priorities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But this individualism we talked about \u2014 it has a dual nature. At some point, it starts working against us. Love of freedom can become a problem. When we have to unite quickly against an external threat, Ukrainians do it instantly. But when it comes to long-term, systematic work \u2014 when we have to move together toward a common goal for years \u2014 that same love of freedom can start breaking us apart.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Everyone starts saying, \u201cI\u2019m an independent person, I have my own vision, my own approach.\u201d And that\u2019s when internal tension begins \u2014 first within ourselves, and then between people. So I want to ask \u2014 in your opinion, when does this love of freedom stop being positive? When does it start causing harm?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> You know, I think when we talk about something like freedom, we have to look at it as a whole \u2014 as a complete concept. Freedom always has two sides. One is the desire to be free, and the other is the fear of being limited. They\u2019re inseparable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We just need to recognize the full emotional range behind it \u2014 and not all of it is conscious. Everyone is at different stages of self-development, in different life circumstances, dealing with their own inner crises. For some, willpower and freedom manifest as altruism \u2014 a willingness to work hard, help others, and stay steady. For others, it\u2019s more about self-protection \u2014 they withdraw, they conserve energy, they become \u201chealthily selfish.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s not necessarily bad. It just means their focus has shifted \u2014 they\u2019re trying to survive, to protect their boundaries. They might think, \u201cI\u2019ve already done enough,\u201d and pull back. So I think it all comes down to resources \u2014 emotional, physical, and psychological \u2014 and to resilience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What we\u2019re lacking right now is discipline. A steady, systematic routine. Because the war has become part of our daily life \u2014 not just militarily, but also informationally, culturally, psychologically, economically.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And while soldiers are living through unimaginable things, civilians often can\u2019t even begin to compare their fatigue to that. People say, \u201cI\u2019m tired, I\u2019ve donated, I\u2019ve helped, I want to rest, I want to live my best life.\u201d But sometimes, we forget the price being paid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think civilians need to be reminded \u2014 gently but firmly \u2014 that the cost is enormous, and we can\u2019t afford to lose focus. We need moral leaders, people who act as reminders, as a kind of backbone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In pedagogy, there\u2019s a simple rule: repetition builds understanding. You repeat something again and again \u2014 maybe in different ways \u2014 and it starts to sink in. It becomes part of you. That\u2019s what we need now: repetition of basic truths.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because this disappointment and fatigue you mentioned \u2014 it\u2019s very real. It comes from the war dragging on, from the shortage of people at the front, from the emotional and physical exhaustion of volunteers. The volunteer movement is still holding the line, but the support behind it has weakened.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People still help, but not as much. Donations come inconsistently. Even I notice it personally \u2014 in summer, it\u2019s always harder. Fundraising drops, meetings slow down. And then autumn comes, and something shifts \u2014 people wake up a little again. But the pattern repeats.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> That\u2019s when the business season starts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, yes, maybe that\u2019s part of it \u2014 people simply don\u2019t have as much money. And in summer, the attacks always intensify. I\u2019ve already noticed this pattern \u2014 the Russians, well, let\u2019s just say, become especially active every summer. It\u2019s like clockwork with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s exactly when donations drop, motivation drops, and the military needs help the most. You start to see this pattern \u2014 and it\u2019s something we need to explain to people in new ways. Because just showing it through the news no longer works. Everyone\u2019s seen everything already.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Honestly, from my own experience, I\u2019d say this: we love freedom, but we\u2019re also a bit lazy. That\u2019s very Ukrainian too. Freedom often comes with the attitude of \u201cI\u2019ll do it if I want to.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sometimes we really need a mentor figure \u2014 someone who can explain <em>why<\/em> it matters, why we need to act. Ukrainians need leaders \u2014 not in a monarchic sense, not someone to command us, but someone who constantly inspires.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We need fresh voices. Someone says something new, something resonates, and people wake up \u2014 \u201cOh, that\u2019s cool!\u201d That\u2019s how you reach Ukrainians. Because we\u2019re unpredictable, restless, each with our own opinion, our own character. As the saying goes \u2014 \u201cthree hetmans for every two Ukrainians.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Or even four.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Exactly, I\u2019d say four by now. Because every free-spirited Ukrainian naturally turns into a bit of an egocentrist \u2014 \u201cI know best,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ll do it my way.\u201d That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to self-reflect: are you mature enough to tell others anything at all?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But on the other hand, you also need enough self-esteem to value yourself \u2014 to know that your voice matters. It\u2019s a very delicate balance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sometimes the best people \u2014 the ones who actually do the most \u2014 are the quietest. They don\u2019t speak up or give themselves enough credit. And maybe they <em>should<\/em> speak more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And those who shout the loudest \u2014 it\u2019s often just noise. Usually, the ones who talk the most are the ones who do the least. And yes, we have plenty of that too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> I remind our viewers that today, in the studio of the project <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em>, we are talking about freedom with rap artist Blackfish. Do you often go to the front?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Not that often.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Not that often?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I go about once a season. Sometimes for a week. I went in the spring, but I didn\u2019t make it in the summer because I had a trip to Europe. So, some people say that\u2019s often \u2014 but compared to those who go every single week, it really isn\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Let\u2019s put it this way \u2014 you visit regularly. You talk with soldiers \u2014 both career military and those who were mobilized in 2022. And that brings us to another side of freedom: on the one hand, you join the army to defend freedom, to fight for it, but on the other hand, the army itself is a system where freedom simply doesn\u2019t exist. It\u2019s structure, hierarchy, discipline. There\u2019s no room for personal liberty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Have you ever talked to the military about how they deal with that internal conflict \u2014 between fighting <em>for<\/em> freedom and having <em>no<\/em> freedom inside the system?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Actually, yes \u2014 just yesterday I was talking about this with a soldier, a volunteer, a really decent person. We were discussing the news that China had held its biggest military parade in 80 years. I said, \u201cCan you imagine? They\u2019re all standing there, stone-faced \u2014 I can\u2019t even say what I really think of them \u2014 celebrating some strange holiday of theirs.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then I said, \u201cBut we, Ukrainians, we stand for democracy, for individuality, for human rights.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And my friend replied, \u201cYou know, I don\u2019t feel any individuality in the army at all. I don\u2019t feel like I have any rights.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That really stuck with me, because it\u2019s true \u2014 for both men and women in the military, it\u2019s an enormous test. Especially for women. There are many cases where female soldiers face unfair treatment, simply because they\u2019re women.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right now, the army is at a turning point. The old system \u2014 the bureaucratic, Soviet-style, staff army \u2014 is being replaced by a new one. It\u2019s being reshaped by volunteers and professionals who came from civilian life: businesspeople, innovators, bright individuals who had already built something in this world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These people don\u2019t obey blindly. They bring initiative, creativity, independence \u2014 and sometimes, yes, they break the rules. They clash with old-school commanders who can\u2019t handle that kind of thinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I\u2019m proud of them. Because that tension \u2014 that friction \u2014 is exactly what creates transformation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I see it everywhere: in the army, in civilian life, in culture, in politics. Everywhere you look in Ukraine right now, something is transforming. It\u2019s an alchemical process \u2014 what it turns into depends on how strong each element is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If I want Ukraine to become the country I dream about, I have to start with myself. I know I can\u2019t change everything, but I can influence my own little circle \u2014 5,000, 10,000 people \u2014 and that\u2019s already something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if more of us do that, little by little, we\u2019ll transform the whole country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> So you\u2019re saying that this love of freedom, even inside the army, actually drives change?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Exactly. I think it\u2019s <em>because<\/em> of that love of freedom that the army even holds together. Because if it worked strictly like the old Soviet-style system \u2014 by rigid hierarchy and fear \u2014 it would have fallen apart long ago.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> The small Russian army.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Well, yes. I\u2019m not trying to downplay the importance of the professional army \u2014 there are things there that come from years of military experience, things that truly work and keep structure. But the spirit \u2014 the victorious spirit of Ukraine \u2014 comes from the volunteer movement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The professional military gives us the framework, the structure, the \u201cbody\u201d of the army, if you will. It\u2019s like a machine that holds everything together and knows how to distribute forces, how to plan, how to manage. But the <em>soul<\/em> \u2014 that\u2019s the volunteers. The people who came from civilian life, the ones driven by conviction, not by orders.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And one without the other can\u2019t survive \u2014 they need each other. But if you ask me, the spirit is decisive. The inner drive of people \u2014 that\u2019s what moves the body. And I hope that it\u2019s precisely this volunteer, freedom-loving spirit that will ultimately shape what our new army becomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Here\u2019s a more philosophical question: why, in your opinion, has the love of freedom become such an essential part of Ukrainian identity?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I can\u2019t speak for all of Ukraine. Like I said, it\u2019s hard for me to judge historical processes I wasn\u2019t part of. But I can speak for myself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At the beginning of 2022 \u2014 even before the full-scale invasion \u2014 I already knew war was coming. Friends offered to help me leave, but I refused. I said, \u201cNo matter what happens, I\u2019ll stay.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Kyiv was under threat, I spent about a month and a half in Lviv. Friends invited me to go abroad then too \u2014 and again, I didn\u2019t go. I felt this very clear inner certainty, like something inside me had already made the choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when I look at other Ukrainians who stayed, I feel that same inner harmony \u2014 as if we all heard one call and made a collective choice. Not everyone, of course, but the majority. And I don\u2019t focus on those who didn\u2019t. I focus on those who did \u2014 people I admire deeply, people who inspire me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some of my friends, commanders, volunteers \u2014 they do incredible things. What they do is much greater than what I do. I look up to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That inner choice, for me, comes from conscience. There\u2019s this voice inside \u2014 if I do something wrong, I feel it immediately. It\u2019s uncomfortable, even painful. And I think if a person silences that voice once, compromises once, then it becomes easier to silence it again \u2014 until you stop hearing it altogether.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That voice of conscience, I believe, comes from our parents, our grandparents, our folklore \u2014 from the songs, stories, and atmosphere of our childhood. It\u2019s embedded in us. It\u2019s the same voice that says, \u201cDon\u2019t do that, Vasyl Telesyk,\u201d or \u201cBe careful, Veronika.\u201d It\u2019s our inner folklore, a moral echo passed down through generations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when you listen to it \u2014 when you really hear it \u2014 it leads you to the right choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about that voice \u2014 about <em>Blackfish<\/em>. About your new project. You said it was born during volunteer trips to the Donetsk region. But you\u2019ve been singing since childhood, and as you\u2019ve mentioned, it runs in your family. Though I suppose it wasn\u2019t always rap?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> No, definitely not. But for me, rap <em>is<\/em> poetry \u2014 literally. The word \u201crap\u201d comes from \u201cRhythmic American Poetry.\u201d It\u2019s a poetic genre, and what makes it powerful, especially now in Ukraine, is that it\u2019s tied to human rights \u2014 to truth, to freedom of expression.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s a culture within rap that I\u2019ve always wanted to see more of in our own music. Where I used to sing, everything was beautiful, lyrical \u2014 but I missed honesty. I missed truth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So when I started studying literature again \u2014 I\u2019m a philologist by education \u2014 I realized that rap could merge everything I love: poetry, music, and truth. I\u2019ve always written lyrics, composed songs, created both text and melody. But words have always meant more to me than the music. I pour my essence into them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And now, rap gives me that space. It\u2019s a genre of freedom \u2014 and, importantly, of protest. But not destructive protest \u2014 a <em>healthy<\/em> one. Rap, for me, is about saying what you really see. It\u2019s social. It\u2019s about people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you look at American or British rap, it\u2019s full of stories about society, about relationships between people, about injustice, about hope. That\u2019s what I want to bring into Ukrainian rap \u2014 that depth, that honesty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I first started experimenting with it, my band didn\u2019t really understand what I was doing. But my granddaughter \u2014 she got it immediately. She told me, \u201cI don\u2019t know what this is yet, but it\u2019s cool. Keep doing it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She inspired me to continue. She said, \u201cFind someone who can help you refine it \u2014 but don\u2019t stop.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And you know, what I\u2019m doing isn\u2019t traditional rap. It\u2019s closer to spoken word \u2014 a more poetic form. It\u2019s rhythmical, but it\u2019s complex, with layered rhymes and meanings. People expect simple, direct rhymes, but mine are more intricate \u2014 internal rhymes, cross-rhymes, ideas that echo across lines.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It doesn\u2019t always follow the usual structure \u2014 but it sounds musical. And for me, that\u2019s what makes it alive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> is created with the support of the Ukrainian Cultural Foundation. The project is published in several formats \u2014 so you can choose the one you like: watch, listen, or read our episodes, and be sure to share your thoughts in the comments. Because in this project, every thought matters.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And of course, subscribe to our channels and pages so you don\u2019t miss anything new \u2014 all the links are in the description below.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By the way, about your earlier work \u2014 I came across one description that called it \u201ca chronicle of our time.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s true. I started that project during the Revolution of Dignity, and my previous work was closely tied to those events. For me, that was the first wave of protest music \u2014 a time when musicians were not just performing, but standing up for something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And now\u2026 I feel that many of my colleagues from that protest wave have, well \u2014 deflated a bit. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but that raw protest energy is no longer there. Unfortunately, the industry has become more commercial, and given the financial crisis, it\u2019s really hard to survive as a musician. It\u2019s tough to stay true to yourself, to work, and still earn a living.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I see how hard everyone\u2019s fighting just to stay afloat. Music isn\u2019t a profitable field in Ukraine. So at some point, I decided: I\u2019ll just do what I want \u2014 not for money, but for creative satisfaction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I freed myself from financial pressure and from the expectations of the industry \u2014 from that whole system of \u201cyou have to sound like this,\u201d \u201cyou have to perform like that.\u201d In the mainstream scene, so much depends on who you know, what connections you have, who your manager drinks with. It\u2019s all politics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I\u2019ve always been someone who speaks my mind. I tell people the truth directly \u2014 and not everyone likes that. So I didn\u2019t always feel comfortable in the industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But when I discovered rap, I thought \u2014 \u201cThis is it. This is my community.\u201d In rap, no one cares about who you know \u2014 they care about your words, your rhythm, your authenticity. You\u2019re judged by your skill.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s competition, but it\u2019s healthy \u2014 not fake. You\u2019re not promoted because of connections, you earn respect by being real. And for someone like me, who values honesty above all, that felt like home.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Would you say rap follows certain rules, or is it more of a reflection of the times we live in?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> It\u2019s both \u2014 it has its own rules, but it\u2019s also very much a sign of the times.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In my opinion, rap now carries the truest reflection of Ukrainian society. We criticize, we speak honestly, we don\u2019t sugarcoat. There\u2019s no hidden agenda \u2014 no one pays us to say certain things. For real rappers, it\u2019s not about profit. It\u2019s about truth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, there are commercial artists too \u2014 technically skilled, professional \u2014 and I respect them. But at its core, rap has always been an underground genre, born on the streets. And the streets \u2014 that\u2019s where the real voice of the people lives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s funny, but even in global culture, the streets are what set trends now. Anti-fashion is in style. I was just in England, talking to a young fashion student. She told me that in London, they\u2019re inspired by parodying luxury \u2014 mocking big brands like Gucci or Chanel, creating \u201cintellectual knockoffs\u201d that flip the meaning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That says a lot about how the world is rethinking values \u2014 moving away from wealth and status toward individuality, humor, and authenticity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Meanwhile, in Ukraine, we still sometimes chase luxury \u2014 that desire to own something expensive, even if it\u2019s just to hide our insecurities. But in Europe, people realized long ago that true value lies in taste, in self-irony, in personality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I think the same shift is happening in music. The old, oligarch-driven pop culture \u2014 the one that served the interests of media bosses and moneyed artists \u2014 is collapsing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now we\u2019re seeing a new wave of musicians who are inspired not by luxury, but by life \u2014 by their friends at the front, by volunteers, by people doing real, heroic things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You just can\u2019t look at what\u2019s happening and stay indifferent. That\u2019s why, when I see someone driving a fancy car, bragging about their wealth, I honestly don\u2019t care.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you\u2019ve never been to the front, never sat in a trench, never seen the faces of those defending us \u2014 then your wealth means nothing to me. None of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because those who\u2019ve faced war \u2014 they\u2019re the ones who know real value. Everything else is just a cover for people\u2019s insecurities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And you can feel that very strongly in Ukraine right now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> You said the goal of your project is moral and psychological support. Why rap?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Well, in principle, rap itself is moral and psychological support \u2014 at least for me personally. Let me explain why.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I went on tours with our cultural landing group, we performed as musicians. I sang songs, and I could see the shift in our soldiers \u2014 that feeling of disappointment after the first counteroffensive, then the second. Everything inside them changed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I saw how my music affected them \u2014 how it resonated before the counteroffensive under Zaluzhnyi, and how differently it was received afterward. The emotions, the conversations, the exhaustion \u2014 all of that shaped me deeply as a person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then, in the summer of 2023, I hit a really tough inner crisis. I felt useless in civilian life \u2014 like nothing I did mattered, like my music wasn\u2019t reaching people, like I wasn\u2019t myself anymore. I wasn\u2019t happy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At moments like that, I always want to escape to the front, to join my friends in the army. But they always ask me, \u201cAre you sure you\u2019re doing it for the right reasons?\u201d They\u2019re right \u2014 running from civilian life isn\u2019t the right motivation to enlist.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then there\u2019s my dad. He\u2019s serving now. He told me flat out: \u201cI forbid it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I was stuck \u2014 lost, not knowing what to do. I didn\u2019t even want to sing anymore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But since I had started taking literary courses \u2014 and I\u2019ve always been someone drawn to books, culture, psychology, and the human soul \u2014 I just kept learning, reading, thinking. At some point, all that new knowledge, those conversations, and the experiences I had gathered created this huge need in me to <em>speak<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when I started to speak \u2014 to say things out loud, to put them into words and rhythm \u2014 it helped. It healed something inside me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s how I see moral and psychological support. It\u2019s actually a term used in the military \u2014 it means supporting soldiers emotionally and mentally during combat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We used to go as a group \u2014 musicians, chaplains, psychologists. We\u2019d perform, talk, listen. That combination \u2014 art, spirit, and psychology \u2014 that\u2019s moral and psychological support. It\u2019s not just about entertainment; it\u2019s about helping people hold on to their humanity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There weren\u2019t only musicians, by the way \u2014 there were magicians, illusionists, artists of all kinds. It struck me how important that work is \u2014 because we <em>are<\/em> that invisible force that helps people stay sane in inhuman conditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But it\u2019s hard. When you go to the infantry \u2014 to people who\u2019ve just returned from missions \u2014 and you look into their eyes, you see things that words can\u2019t describe. You see fear, trauma, disbelief. You realize how deep that darkness goes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sometimes I think \u2014 if someone here, in civilian life, feels unmotivated or lost \u2014 I\u2019d just send them to spend a day with those soldiers. The motivation would appear instantly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Just sit down with them, talk, listen. You\u2019ll see what real strength and pain look like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s why news alone doesn\u2019t work. News gives you information, but not meaning. Moral and psychological support is about restoring inner meaning \u2014 about the soul, about consciousness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And to form that inner state, you have to go through your own journey \u2014 like I did \u2014 and find something new within yourself. I think, in a way, that\u2019s how I saved myself from my own crisis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And maybe, through my music, I can help someone else do the same.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> By the way, we\u2019ve already had a military chaplain and a military psychologist as guests on this project.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> And today, you have a musician.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Exactly. So, I hope that by watching our program, this can also serve as a kind of moral and psychological support for someone. That\u2019s really what we aim for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, another question \u2014 still about the theme of freedom. Do you think that in modern Ukrainian music there\u2019s still a continuation of the folk tradition \u2014 that spirit of freedom and willfulness?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Do you think that spirit of freedom \u2014 the love of will we find in Ukrainian folk songs \u2014 still exists in modern Ukrainian music? I mean not literally quoting folklore, but in the content, in the lyrics. Because even though folk songs don\u2019t always speak directly about freedom, the <em>spirit<\/em> of freedom is there \u2014 in Cossack songs, in riflemen\u2019s songs, in lyrical songs, even in the epic dumy. It\u2019s in the DNA of our musical tradition. Do you feel that same energy today?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, absolutely. There\u2019s a lot of it. I\u2019m just not as immersed in all of today\u2019s music right now \u2014 honestly, I simply don\u2019t have the time or emotional resources to follow everything that\u2019s happening. I\u2019m very focused on my own field, on what I write about, on what\u2019s close to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lately, the folk side doesn\u2019t attract me as much as the literary one. I\u2019m more interested in words \u2014 in texts and meanings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> I mean the lyrics too \u2014 that emotional and symbolic connection, not the literal folklore quotations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Right. Well, to me, Ukrainian music \u2014 like literature, like theater \u2014 has always been a reaction to what\u2019s happening in society. And now again, all the tension, all the pain, all the searching we\u2019re living through is reflected in art.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I see it everywhere. I see it in the literary scene \u2014 there\u2019s a real explosion of creativity now. People are reading, writing, buying books. Literary festivals are full. Audiences line up to listen to poets. It\u2019s beautiful \u2014 because it\u2019s a response to destruction. When someone tries to erase us, we instinctively want to <em>preserve<\/em> ourselves, to understand who we are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So we study our language, our culture, our literature \u2014 and that\u2019s where our freedom shows.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This isn\u2019t so much about creating something \u201cnew,\u201d but about rediscovering the power of being ourselves. There\u2019s so much energy now \u2014 because there\u2019s demand. People are opening up again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ukraine has always had incredible talent, but in certain periods those voices were silenced \u2014 censored, hidden, banned. Many were born in the wrong time, like under the Soviet regime, and paid for it with their lives. And only now are we finally hearing them, realizing their true value.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So when we sit in a caf\u00e9, talk freely about books, about poetry \u2014 we are continuing their work. That, to me, is freedom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not only about creating art \u2014 it\u2019s about living creatively. We\u2019re a very artistic nation. Everyone here sings, paints, makes something by hand. Even our homemakers are artists \u2014 look at how they decorate food, houses, embroidery. Everything around us is filled with beauty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I don\u2019t separate the author from the listener or the reader. It\u2019s one creative process. When someone listens to my songs, they\u2019re part of the creation too \u2014 they complete the meaning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And the truth is, I\u2019m not writing songs about myself \u2014 not \u201cI\u2019m so in love,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m sad today,\u201d \u201cwhat a lovely day.\u201d We had plenty of that before \u2014 and it\u2019s fine, but it\u2019s flat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Most of what dominated before \u2014 that whole oligarchic pop tradition \u2014 was about superficial things. Sex, money, glamour. Empty words, fake emotions. Those songs weren\u2019t real, and they certainly weren\u2019t <em>ours<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because our reality \u2014 Ukrainian reality \u2014 is deeper. Much deeper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, people are incredibly sensitive. They crave authenticity \u2014 real stories, real emotions. And as an author, I feel that too. I care deeply about what happens to my people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I used to cry a lot about it \u2014 truly. But at some point, I couldn\u2019t anymore. You reach a stage where pain becomes so constant that it freezes, and you start analyzing it instead \u2014 coldly, rationally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s where my current work comes from. It\u2019s not just emotion, it\u2019s reflection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019ve seen so many of my friends \u2014 soldiers, volunteers \u2014 go through impossible things. Some were wounded. I\u2019ve known their stories for years. And when you see what they\u2019ve been through, you just can\u2019t afford to waste your time on nonsense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can\u2019t complain about little things. You can\u2019t act like nothing\u2019s happening.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some people choose to close off, to live simply, to make money and not think about it \u2014 and that\u2019s their right. But for me, that\u2019s no longer possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019re living in a time when pain has reached a critical mass. And I believe that pain will ultimately lead to justice \u2014 that voice of conscience we talked about earlier will put everything in its place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe those changes haven\u2019t reached everyone yet. But I can feel them. Deep inside \u2014 they\u2019ve already reached me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> By the way, how did your family react to this new format \u2014 to you switching to rap?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Honestly? I couldn\u2019t care less what my grandma thinks. She knows I have songs with swear words, and at first she was like, \u201cOh God, you were raised better than this \u2014 what are these words?\u201d And I told her, \u201cGrandma, I can\u2019t write about pain and guilt without swearing. There just aren\u2019t enough clean words for that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My dad, on the other hand, is more skeptical. He always says, \u201cI miss your old music.\u201d And I tell him, \u201cDad, I just don\u2019t feel like singing that way anymore.\u201d He shrugs and says, \u201cDo what you want.\u201d So, he\u2019s not really my listener. Neither is my grandma.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My mom \u2014 she\u2019s my favorite person \u2014 but even she isn\u2019t exactly my target audience. And that\u2019s fine. Because if I made music <em>for<\/em> my parents, then probably only my parents would listen to it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When you start saying things that make even your family uncomfortable \u2014 that\u2019s when you know you\u2019re touching something real. You\u2019re doing something right. That\u2019s what it means to be an artist \u2014 to keep your hand on the pulse of what\u2019s human.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And yes, that\u2019s also about freedom. The freedom to be yourself, even when it\u2019s messy, imperfect, or uncertain. I\u2019m not saying I\u2019ve figured everything out \u2014 I\u2019m still searching. But I need that range \u2014 the freedom to explore, to make mistakes, to be wrong sometimes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I trust my own moral compass enough to know it won\u2019t lead me down a destructive path. But creativity \u2014 it\u2019s what helps me process pain, to articulate it, to survive it. And that\u2019s not just me saying that \u2014 there\u2019s plenty of research showing that when people go through traumatic experiences, especially extreme ones, like what we\u2019re all living through now, it\u2019s essential to speak about it, to express it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why art \u2014 any art \u2014 matters.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when it comes to moral and psychological support, I\u2019ve always had this deep urge to help the military <em>live through<\/em> their stories \u2014 to make them feel heard. I want them to know that someone from civilian life \u2014 some girl writing songs \u2014 sees them, thinks about them, appreciates them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because when soldiers realize that we, civilians, are grateful \u2014 that\u2019s everything. Gratitude and respect \u2014 that\u2019s the foundation of a healthy culture.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We can sit here, talk about philosophy, freedom, identity \u2014 and we can only do that because they give us this chance. They pay for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So my whole transformation \u2014 as a person, as an artist \u2014 came from contact with the front. I wasn\u2019t there as a soldier, but even being near it, talking to those people, seeing their eyes, hearing their voices \u2014 it changed me completely. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em> stay the same after that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I believe that through creativity \u2014 through art, music, language \u2014 we can help others feel that too. Because when people start to <em>feel<\/em>, empathy appears. And when there\u2019s empathy, it becomes easier to understand others, even if their experiences are completely different from yours.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s the mission of creativity right now \u2014 to translate the emotions and experiences of Ukrainians into something that can be felt and understood by everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> And since I sincerely hope your rap will still be listened to a hundred years from now \u2014 what message would you want to leave for people in the future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And since I really hope your rap will still be listened to a hundred years from now \u2014 what message would you want to leave to people in the future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I wasn\u2019t ready for that question, honestly. Maybe someone else will decide later what my message was \u2014 or maybe I\u2019ll figure it out myself one day. But right now, I don\u2019t have a message for people in a hundred years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I have a message for people <em>now<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At this moment, I want people to keep searching for new meanings \u2014 and to understand that war is work. It\u2019s not just tragedy; it\u2019s routine. It\u2019s something we have to learn to live with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We have daily routines \u2014 we brush our teeth, drink coffee, drive to work, take our kids to school. We have a culture of hygiene, of food, of work, of study. But we still haven\u2019t fully formed a <em>culture of how to fight<\/em> \u2014 how to live while fighting, how to support each other through war.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I think we\u2019re only beginning to realize that now. Through my creative sketches, through my lyrics, I\u2019m trying to describe what that culture might look like \u2014 what kind of nation we\u2019re becoming as a people at war.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because if you look at our history \u2014 we\u2019ve always been fighting. The field keeps rolling, as we say. Something\u2019s always happening here. We never get to relax.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At the same time, we\u2019re a peaceful people \u2014 farmers, homemakers, not aggressors, not conquerors. We never went anywhere to harm others. But yes, the Cossacks \u2014 they were our nomads, our warriors, our defenders.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Well, technically, the Sich <em>was<\/em> their home \u2014 their community \u2014 and they lived around it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s true. The Cossack was a kind of man separated from his home and family \u2014 but still with something to return to, with someone waiting for him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s how I see us now. We are, in a sense, always at war \u2014 not just literally, but culturally. It keeps repeating through generations. We just need to rethink it, structure it, and make it part of our collective routine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example \u2014 donations. How often do you do it? To whom? I have my own rule: I only help people I know \u2014 friends, soldiers I trust, or friends of friends who ask me directly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I think that\u2019s how it should be. Everyone should ask themselves: what am I personally doing for victory? For moral support? For the survival of my nation?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe you\u2019re learning the language. Maybe you\u2019re volunteering. Maybe you\u2019re weaving camouflage nets. But you\u2019re <em>doing something.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s our shared culture now \u2014 the culture of participation. And I think that reminding people of the war through human stories can inspire them to act, to care, to do something meaningful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong> Today we also talked about female figures \u2014 in folklore and beyond. Do you think there\u2019s a difference between how women and men experience freedom?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I can\u2019t speak for men. But for myself \u2014 I\u2019m very grateful to have been born here, in this country, in this family, because my parents gave me the space to explore my own freedom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I even left home once, because I didn\u2019t agree with the rules set for me. It was a kind of protest \u2014 a peaceful one, actually. My mom was the mediator, always trying to reconcile us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That was my path of learning independence \u2014 learning to stand up for what I believed in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when it comes to my current path \u2014 this rap story \u2014 it\u2019s the same.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was just visiting my mom in Germany \u2014 she\u2019s been there since the beginning of the war as a refugee. And she said, \u201cRap? Really? Is there even money in that?\u201d I told her, \u201cMom, there\u2019s <em>no<\/em> money in rap.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She was shocked. \u201cThen why are you doing it?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I said, \u201cMom, please, stop.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For her, it\u2019s hard to understand \u2014 because she loves me and worries about me. But for me, this is my nature. I <em>have<\/em> to be myself, and I can\u2019t live guided by other people\u2019s fears \u2014 not my parents\u2019, not my neighbors\u2019, not my boss\u2019s, not anyone\u2019s.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s what freedom means to me. Not to be afraid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And maybe that\u2019s my feminine nature \u2014 but I can\u2019t speak for everyone. Women are different. There are many who work in non-creative professions, who live completely different lives. I can\u2019t generalize for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I can only say what freedom means for me \u2014 to live honestly, to follow my own path, and to not be afraid to be myself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> So rap for you \u2014 your work now \u2014 is really more about freedom and values than about circumstances or business, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> Honestly, creativity doesn\u2019t depend on circumstances. You\u2019ll agree \u2014 when someone\u2019s creative, they crave freedom; they want to express something fresh, something new. Artists naturally have that in them \u2014 they\u2019re open, emotionally free people. You can always feel it when you meet an actor or a musician.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, rap is simply who I am right now. I don\u2019t know who I\u2019ll be later. I hope I\u2019ll stay a rapper and that this path will take me somewhere \u2014 but who knows.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Let me tell you a funny story about the <em>povitrulya.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Go ahead.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> So, my dad and I once went with my mom to visit my grandmother for summer vacation. She lives in a village in the Rivne region. She\u2019s the kind of person who embroidered everything by hand, remembered all the old songs and fairy tales \u2014 she carried that whole folklore world inside her.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We were talking about what my family nickname should be, and Grandma suddenly says to my dad: \u201cSerhii, you have such a creative and beautiful daughter \u2014 name her <em>Povitrulya.<\/em>\u201d<br>And my dad goes, \u201cMom, that\u2019s indecent! I\u2019m not calling her that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For him it sounded somehow improper, and I remember laughing so hard \u2014 \u201cPovitrulya? No way.\u201d But later, when you mentioned her, I had this flashback. I thought of my Grandma Halyna \u2014 she\u2019s long gone now \u2014 but she was truly a <em>berehynia<\/em> of our family\u2019s traditions in the Rivne region.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I even recorded my philology practice with her \u2014 her stories, songs, embroidery. She baked bread, tended her whitewashed oven \u2014 all those details live inside me. And that\u2019s such a contrast to Kryvyi Rih, where I grew up \u2014 a mostly Russian-speaking reality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s probably why I move easily between different worlds. I understand how people from different regions think, and I always try to find those small keys that connect us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> So you probably inherited your love of tradition from your grandmother?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> Yes, from my grandmother in the Rivne region. My love for folklore definitely came from her. As a child I adored folk songs \u2014 I sang them a lot in music school, studied them a bit, and later at university.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At the university we even had separate courses on folklore and ancient Ukrainian literature \u2014 they\u2019re deeply connected. Folklore keeps returning, echoing in modern literature.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And now, for example, I\u2019m really inspired by what my granddaughter is doing \u2014 not just because she\u2019s my granddaughter, but because she genuinely conveys something fresh. I call her the Ukrainian Bj\u00f6rk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To me, she\u2019s an artist on that level \u2014 rethinking our traditions and heritage through modern, electronic sound. It\u2019s absolutely cosmic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now you\u2019ll have the perfect chance to sing a Ukrainian folk song, because it\u2019s time for our traditional segment \u2014 <em>The Folklore Chest.<\/em> And today, there\u2019s a surprise inside for the performer of the song.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019re offering you three songs. You can pick one \u2014 whichever one you\u2019re lucky enough to get. Choose a slip of paper, read the title aloud, and sing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> All right. Oh \u2014 \u201cThere\u2019s a Red Viburnum in the Meadow.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> You\u2019re lucky! Every Ukrainian knows that one \u2014 probably even sings it with a chord or two. And that song, I think, perfectly reflects the freedom-loving spirit of our people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> It\u2019s interesting that sometimes the second verse is added \u2014 I\u2019ve seen versions that go, \u201cDon\u2019t bend, oh red viburnum, you have a white blossom; don\u2019t be sad, Ukraine, you have a good family.\u201d There are so many versions of this song.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Exactly \u2014 the existence of different versions is what makes it a true folk song.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> Yes, there are always variations \u2014 that\u2019s part of the beauty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> And there\u2019s a fascinating story behind \u201cOh, There\u2019s a Red Viburnum in the Meadow.\u201d It\u2019s not technically a pure folk song, because originally it <em>was<\/em> one \u2014 called \u201cThe Steep Banks Spilled.\u201d Then in 1914, Stepan Charnetsky adapted it in Lviv for a theatrical performance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that\u2019s how the version we know \u2014 \u201cOh, There\u2019s a Red Viburnum in the Meadow\u201d \u2014 was born.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> Cool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> It was originally an author\u2019s song, but later it became so popular that everyone started to think of it as folk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> So it\u2019s kind of come full circle. It\u2019s like \u201cThose Eyes That Stare, You Never Came,\u201d sung by Trivo Marenechi \u2014 it sounds completely like a folk song.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Exactly. It\u2019s the story of how a folk song became an author\u2019s song, and then turned back into a folk one again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Yes, exactly. People take it, make it their own, give it new meaning. That\u2019s how it lives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> <\/strong> Right \u2014 if a song keeps changing, that\u2019s a sure sign it\u2019s truly folk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Absolutely. It has its own life. It\u2019s not fixed \u2014 every region adds something different, their own variation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I\u2019d actually like to sing the verse that\u2019s less known, because everyone knows the first one. But there\u2019s another verse that reminds us we\u2019re still in the middle of the journey, and that we need new strength.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s a perfect reflection of what I want to wish our listeners and all Ukrainians:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Do not bow, red viburnum,<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> You have a white blossom.<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> Do not grieve, glorious Ukraine,<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> You have a free kin.<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> And we will raise that red viburnum,<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> And we will cheer our glorious Ukraine \u2014<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> Hey, hey!<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you to Andrii Khlyvnyuk for this variation \u2014 I\u2019m honored to continue your tradition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Thank you, Blackfish.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Thank you. It was truly a pleasure to be here. This is actually my first video interview \u2014 so I\u2019m really glad it happened within such a great project. I\u2019m very happy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Thank you for the invitation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Now for our quick Blitz round \u2014 seven short questions, seven short (or not-so-short) answers, whichever you prefer.<br>What quality do you value most in people?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Honesty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> And the one you dislike most?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Lies \u2014 when a person lies.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> What inspires you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> People.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> What scares you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I don\u2019t even know right now\u2026 Probably a nuclear catastrophe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> What has helped you get through hard times in life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Creativity. Songs and lyrics \u2014 everything new I create helps me cope.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> What\u2019s your life\u2019s main goal or mission?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> That\u2019s a really interesting question. I\u2019m not sure I know it yet. I have different goals, but first of all, I want to be happy \u2014 as a person.<br>And I want the people around me to feel comfortable. For me to be happy \u2014 and for my happiness not to harm anyone else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> If you had to describe Ukrainians in three words, what would they be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> Let\u2019s see\u2026 Freedom-loving, brave, and proud. That\u2019s how I see us \u2014 proud and courageous people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> We have one last section \u2014 <em>Artifact<\/em>. We ask our guests to leave something behind as a keepsake.<br>Since we have rapper Blackfish in the studio today, we thought we\u2019d ask you to write \u2014 and read \u2014 a short rap dedicated to freedom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Blackfish<\/strong><\/strong> I\u2019d like to contribute something for your museum \u2014 or your collection. Since this one already feels like a folk piece to me, let it be this:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>While we\u2019re tired here,<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> My father stays silent\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He actually scolded me for that line.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>At the front, in the East, he says,<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> \u201cNo need to help with Bor, I\u2019ll handle it myself.\u201d<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> The romantic time has passed \u2014<\/em><em><br><\/em><em> Now it\u2019s time for practical people.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s from my track <em>Practices<\/em>, dedicated to all the \u201cpractitioners\u201d \u2014 the people holding the front. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Blackfish<\/strong> Maybe it really will end up as a museum artifact someday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><strong>Nik Lysytskiy<\/strong><\/strong> Thank you all for watching \u2014 and goodbye.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Guest of the episode: rap performer Blackfish. Transcript of conversations Nik Lysytskiy Hello, I&#8217;m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity. Who we were, who we\u2019ve become, what we have, and who we can be. We seek answers in folklore, as [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":2368,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[125,116],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2552","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interview","category-love-of-freedom"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Conversation with Blackfish - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/interview\/rozmova-z-blekfish\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Conversation with Blackfish - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Guest of the episode: rap performer Blackfish. Transcript of conversations Nik Lysytskiy Hello, I&#8217;m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity. Who we were, who we\u2019ve become, what we have, and who we can be. 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\u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/interview\/rozmova-z-blekfish\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Conversation with Blackfish - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c","og_description":"Guest of the episode: rap performer Blackfish. Transcript of conversations Nik Lysytskiy Hello, I&#8217;m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation \u2014 a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity. Who we were, who we\u2019ve become, what we have, and who we can be. 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