{"id":2562,"date":"2025-10-21T23:03:17","date_gmt":"2025-10-21T20:03:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/?p=2562"},"modified":"2025-10-21T23:04:07","modified_gmt":"2025-10-21T20:04:07","slug":"rozmova-z-tymofiyem-brikom","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/ingenuity\/rozmova-z-tymofiyem-brikom\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation with Tymofii Brik"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/creators.spotify.com\/pod\/profile\/magicworld\/embed\/episodes\/--e38112q\/a-ac59hi1\"> <\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: Tymofii Brik on ingenuity, experience, and the power of scaling \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/4bYiWDOs4QVwNCHY7mMvRQ?si=uozPlB-oT1yAzjLBbXQNzg&#038;utm_source=oembed\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guest of the episode: Tymofiy Brick \u2013 sociologist, rector of the Kyiv School of Economics.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Tymofii Brik on ingenuity, experience, and the power of scaling \u2734 Archetype of the Nation\" width=\"1102\" height=\"620\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/q9t69OkaxkI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript of conversations<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Hello, I\u2019m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em>\u2014a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian identity: who we were, who we\u2019ve become, and who we can be. We search for answers in folklore and in conversations with remarkable Ukrainians.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, our guest is <strong>Tymofii Brik<\/strong>, sociologist and rector of the Kyiv School of Economics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Good afternoon, Tymofii.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Good afternoon, thank you for the invitation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Thank you for coming. Each episode of our project is devoted to one particular value that characterizes the Ukrainian people. In your interviews, you often talk about values\u2014about how Ukrainians tend to support one another and preserve traditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But today\u2019s topic is a bit different. We want to talk about a very special value\u2014<strong>ingenuity<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong>  Alright. That\u2019s a really interesting and unusual topic. Sociologists don\u2019t study it very often, though some research does exist. I\u2019ll try to approach it from that angle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Excellent. As usual, we\u2019ll begin with folklore. For each episode, our folklorist Maryna Demediuk prepares a short essay exploring how a particular value is reflected in Ukrainian folklore. Let me read a brief excerpt from her work on ingenuity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Sounds very interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> \u201cIngenuity is one of the defining traits of Ukrainians, expressed in the ability to find unconventional solutions in situations of limited resources, hardship, or danger. It combines wit, observation, practical intelligence, and the talent to \u2018come out dry from the water\u2019\u2014with minimal loss or even unexpected gain.\u201d Tymofii, what does ingenuity mean to you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great definition\u2014it\u2019s actually very close to how creativity and ingenuity are discussed in both the social sciences and in business schools. Business schools especially like to talk about qualities that help companies grow, innovate, and stand out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I think about ingenuity, two ideas come to mind.<br>First\u2014the ability to make decisions very quickly. Even when we don\u2019t have full information, or time to think things through, we still have to act. That skill\u2014to act fast and wisely\u2014is ingenuity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s quite a lot of research on this. Anthropologists, psychologists, neuroscientists study it. There\u2019s even a popular science writer, Malcolm Gladwell, who wrote <em>Blink<\/em>\u2014a book about how people make decisions in a split second, sometimes without realizing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This ability comes from experience. To make the right decision fast, you first have to practice a lot. There\u2019s even a saying: <em>the best improvisation is a prepared improvisation.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Think of athletes\u2014they have to decide in a fraction of a second whether to dodge or strike, jump left or right. But that instinct is trained over years. Or a chess player\u2014they can make an excellent move in a moment because they\u2019ve been practicing for decades.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In my own life, both as a researcher and as a rector, I see the same thing. When someone asks me how to design a survey or test a hypothesis, I don\u2019t have time to go to the library or check the literature. I make that decision quickly because I\u2019ve been doing it for 20 years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, ingenuity is hard to achieve without experience.<br>The second part of ingenuity\u2014and one we try to cultivate at work\u2014is <strong>the ability to transfer knowledge from one field to another.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s a big topic in business schools. And it\u2019s controversial\u2014sometimes it\u2019s seen as innovation, sometimes as arrogance. For example, when a businessperson enters politics and says, \u201cLet\u2019s run the country like a company.\u201d On one hand, that\u2019s creative\u2014thinking outside the box. On the other, it might be na\u00efve or even dangerous if they don\u2019t understand how politics actually works.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Finding that balance\u2014between bringing fresh ideas and respecting the new context\u2014is very difficult but essential. We deal with this in academia too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As a sociologist, I sometimes adapt mathematical or economic models to social studies. For instance, my research on religious competition borrows models from economics that describe how markets react to supply and demand. We apply those ideas to study how different religious groups interact and evolve.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But not everyone welcomes that approach. Some say, \u201cHow dare you bring your formulas into the sacred world of faith?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> You\u2019ve touched the sacred.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Exactly! There\u2019s a century-long tradition of discussing religion without numbers, without formulas. And suddenly you bring math into it\u2014they say, \u201cGo write your equations on napkins.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, to summarize: ingenuity is the ability to make quick, effective decisions under pressure, and also the ability to see a pattern in one context and successfully apply it in another. But both forms of ingenuity require preparation and experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Creativity isn\u2019t magic or luck\u2014it\u2019s the result of deep training and professional mastery.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> is produced with the support of the Ukrainian Cultural Foundation and appears in different formats. So choose whichever you like\u2014watch, listen, or read our episodes\u2014and share your thoughts in the comments, because in this project, every opinion matters. And of course, subscribe to our channels so you don\u2019t miss anything new.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">All links are in the episode description.<br>So, are there any studies showing that Ukrainians are, in general, an inventive nation\u2014not just in science, but as a cultural value?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a really interesting question\u2014and I have to admit, even Ukrainian sociologists, myself included, deserve criticism here. Because, surprisingly, there are no such studies.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s a paradox. We see Ukrainian creativity around us every day\u2014especially now, during the war. People are constantly adapting knowledge from one sphere to another.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Drone pilots who used to film weddings are now flying drones in combat. Logistics specialists now manage military supply chains. There are new technologies, new media tactics, cyber defense innovations\u2014so much ingenuity everywhere.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And yet, we rarely stop to study ourselves. There\u2019s no systematic research proving that Ukrainians are a creative nation. Maybe we\u2019ve just never thought to collect that data.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Globally, though, sociologists generally agree that creativity isn\u2019t tied to any one nationality. It\u2019s not that Germans, or Poles, or Americans are \u201cmore creative.\u201d It\u2019s a human trait that depends on environment, institutions, and education\u2014not ethnicity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Usually, sociologists say that creativity functions at the level of a group. Other scholars\u2014biologists, anthropologists, psychologists\u2014might argue that it\u2019s an individual trait, something determined by genetics, personality, or life experience. They\u2019d say some people are naturally more creative, others less so. And that\u2019s true, but sociologists add another layer to this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We agree that personal traits matter\u2014but we also emphasize the <strong>interaction<\/strong> between people in a group or a team. There\u2019s research showing that depending on how people are arranged within a group, creativity can actually increase.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What do we mean by that? Imagine the same people\u2014but you either keep them isolated in their offices, or you put them together in a coworking space. The exact same individuals, with the same skills, will become far more creative once they start interacting. When people exchange ideas, talk, and learn from one another, new insights emerge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are many experiments proving this. When a group collaborates regularly\u2014sharing and recording ideas, revisiting them, refining them\u2014their collective creativity grows. So yes, creativity can be cultivated.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If we bring this back to Ukraine, most research describes Ukrainians as relatively traditional, even somewhat conservative\u2014people who distrust the state, don\u2019t rely much on formal institutions, and prefer to stick with their own. That\u2019s the paradox: on one hand, we\u2019re cautious and skeptical, but in many fields we show remarkable creativity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the question becomes\u2014why are we creative in some contexts, and not in others?<br>My hypothesis goes back to that earlier definition: creativity happens when people have <strong>deep experience<\/strong> in something, when they\u2019re <strong>forced to act quickly<\/strong>, and when they can <strong>transfer knowledge<\/strong> between different fields.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Look at Ukraine today: we have many people with technical backgrounds\u2014engineers, mathematicians, scientists\u2014who now find themselves in unpredictable situations that demand fast, practical solutions. They draw on their prior knowledge and adapt it to entirely new contexts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s like a puzzle coming together. Under pressure, with experience and cross-disciplinary thinking, creativity activates.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Given our traditional distrust of authority, could Ukrainian ingenuity be seen as a form of hidden anarchy\u2014a tendency to bypass rigid systems and invent new approaches instead?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a profound question. I\u2019m not a historian, so I can\u2019t give a definitive answer, but ideally, this is where historians, sociologists, and political scientists should sit together and discuss it collectively.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From my perspective, creativity often thrives in collectives\u2014when people come together, exchange ideas, and build something new. But historically, we\u2019ve often been denied the chance to be creative.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Think of the Soviet era\u2014it was nearly impossible to express originality without risk. You could be punished for independent thinking. The safest survival strategy was silence. Even before that, during the imperial period, creativity wasn\u2019t exactly encouraged either.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For centuries, Ukraine lacked a strong state that protected its citizens\u2019 right to be creative. Compare that to Britain, the U.S., or Switzerland\u2014countries that have had functioning <strong>patent systems<\/strong> for centuries. There, if you invent something, you can register it, gain legal protection, earn money, even receive honors for your ideas. Intellectual achievement has social status.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We never really had that. The state didn\u2019t nurture or fund creativity. And culturally, we lacked strong role models or stories that elevated creativity as a national virtue\u2014the kind of heroes who would make you believe that innovation could lift you to the top of society.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes, creativity has always existed in us, but it\u2019s remained local, small-scale\u2014limited to the backyard, the village, the workshop. Whenever people tried to go further, especially during Soviet times, they were told, \u201cSit down, don\u2019t stand out.\u201d And that shuts down creativity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even after independence, in the 1990s and 2000s, many creative Ukrainians couldn\u2019t fully realize themselves economically. Talented scientists, artists, thinkers often had to move abroad to find opportunities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This long history has held back our potential. But paradoxically, now\u2014in the darkest, hardest period of our history, during war\u2014we\u2019re seeing an explosion of creativity. The state supports it because it\u2019s vital for survival. Society unites around this shared purpose: to endure, we must invent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why we\u2019re seeing new Ukrainian stand-up comedians\u2014humor as a survival tool, a form of cultural therapy. We\u2019re seeing engineers designing drones and defense tech. Even our diplomats are showing creativity. Remember when, at the very start of the full-scale invasion, the Ukrainian representative at the UN brilliantly trolled the Russian delegate? That was quick thinking, clever communication\u2014a perfect example of national ingenuity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes, today Ukraine has finally mobilized around the understanding that creativity isn\u2019t a luxury\u2014it\u2019s a necessity. And now, business, the state, and civil society are working together to support it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> So, can we say that ingenuity has been\u2014and still is\u2014a means of survival for the nation, one of the tools that helped us endure?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s absolutely right. We just haven\u2019t paid much attention to it before. But if you start analyzing, you\u2019ll see that many of our success stories\u2014whether in industry, professional communities, or even politics\u2014are tied to ingenuity and creativity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The key point here, I think, is that when we say <em>\u201cUkrainians,\u201d<\/em> we often imagine some kind of homogeneous group, as if we all share the same traits and values. But from a sociological perspective, society is never one solid mass\u2014it\u2019s a structure made up of different groups: professional, regional, gender, age, religious, linguistic. Sociologists always look at these differences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And creativity might manifest differently across these groups. In some environments, hierarchy matters more. For example, people who worked for decades in a planned economy are used to having a director tell them what to do. In some cultures, collectivism dominates\u2014people rely on group consensus rather than individual decisions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But in other circles\u2014say, among entrepreneurs or stand-up comedians\u2014individual expression is key. Imagine a conference of chemical engineers happening next door to a Ukrainian stand-up festival. Both groups are made up of Ukrainians, both equally smart and talented, but their professional cultures are completely different. One values structure and discipline; the other thrives on originality and improvisation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So creativity isn\u2019t evenly distributed\u2014it depends on context. But that doesn\u2019t mean one person is \u201cbetter\u201d or \u201cworse.\u201d It\u2019s not that one is clever and another is foolish. They\u2019re simply shaped by different environments and values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As sociologists, I think it would be fascinating to study <em>why<\/em> creativity flourishes more in certain groups and less in others\u2014and, more importantly, what we can do to scale that creative energy so that it becomes more widespread among Ukrainians in general.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> How would you distinguish between ingenuity and adaptability?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a really interesting question\u2014and I\u2019ll be honest, I might say something a bit naive here. There\u2019s probably a lot of research on it that I just don\u2019t know. Specialists can correct me later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, in my simple understanding, we use these two words differently. <em>Adaptability<\/em> usually means adjusting to new circumstances. And that\u2019s already a form of creativity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A new situation appears\u2014you have to study it, figure out how to live and function within it. Sometimes adaptability can mean conformism: a new boss arrives, and you follow orders to keep your job. Or under a repressive regime, you stay quiet to avoid punishment. That\u2019s adaptation too, but of a different kind.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yet adaptability can also be <strong>positive<\/strong>\u2014a creative form of adjustment. During the invasion, for example, many local communities learned to keep their daily work going under completely new conditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They needed electricity, so they figured out how to buy, transport, and install generators. They learned logistics, procurement, and technical setup\u2014skills they didn\u2019t have before. That\u2019s adaptability, but also creativity, because they found new solutions to survive and move forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, when we want to emphasize something constructive, we usually use words like <em>creativity<\/em> or <em>ingenuity.<\/em> They suggest not just survival, but problem-solving\u2014overcoming challenges through original ideas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, adaptability is a broader term\u2014it can mean anything from passive adjustment to active innovation. But <em>creativity<\/em> and <em>ingenuity<\/em> imply the positive side of it: there was a problem, and we solved it by thinking differently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> So, is it true that ingenuity often comes from a lack of resources?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s more complicated than that. When we talked about the definition earlier\u2014mine, the one I agree with\u2014it already implies that before you can be creative, you need to learn a lot. To become a brilliant chess player, you have to play chess for twenty years. To become a good sociologist, you must study theory, methods, math, and even some knowledge from other disciplines.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Only then do you begin to see a wide puzzle in front of you\u2014and creativity is about being able to put that puzzle together from different pieces. In other words, real creativity requires prior experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Take, for example, someone who has traveled abroad, seen other cultures, spoken other languages. When they return to Ukraine, they might ask: \u201cWhy do we do science this way? Why do we run politics or business this way? Maybe I could apply what I\u2019ve seen elsewhere.\u201d That\u2019s how inventiveness emerges\u2014from accumulated experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, paradoxically, creativity doesn\u2019t come from <em>nothing<\/em>. It comes from resources\u2014mental, emotional, educational. We need resources to learn, to reflect, to build up knowledge that we can later use when circumstances are hard.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">True creativity appears at the moment when these two states meet:<br>first, you have a rich background of experience and knowledge,<br>and second, you suddenly find yourself in a situation where you have <em>no<\/em> resources\u2014no time, no support, nothing but your wits.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s when you have to mobilize everything you\u2019ve learned before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I can give you a personal example. I spent twenty years building my career as a sociologist\u2014studying and working in the Netherlands, Spain, and the United States. That took enormous resources. But during the full-scale invasion, I was in Kyiv, working at the Kyiv School of Economics\u2014and suddenly I became rector.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There was no time to think, no energy to waste, no margin for error. I had to make quick decisions, drawing on everything I\u2019d learned in the previous twenty years. That, for me, is what true creativity looks like: when a lifetime of preparation meets a moment of scarcity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If someone without such experience found themselves in the same crisis, it would be much harder to be inventive\u2014they simply wouldn\u2019t have the foundation to draw from.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> And can this kind of ingenuity be cultivated through education? Can schools and universities actually teach it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly what I believe. And it\u2019s not just an opinion\u2014there\u2019s research to support it. But it\u2019s also part of my worldview. I deeply believe in education.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Educational institutions\u2014schools, universities\u2014build what economists call <em>human capital<\/em>. That means skills, habits, and ways of thinking. Even if you don\u2019t realize it while you\u2019re studying, you\u2019re training your mind to be flexible. You\u2019re learning to work with information, to collaborate, to think critically.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Later, when you\u2019re already working, you might think: \u201cWhy did I even go to university? I don\u2019t remember a single poem from school, or the math I learned.\u201d But then, one day, you face a complex problem\u2014and suddenly you find that all those years of learning gave you tools you didn\u2019t know you had.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Education shapes the way we perceive the world. It trains emotional intelligence, teaches us to understand others, and builds teamwork skills. Eventually, those lessons resurface\u2014when you have to start a business, solve a crisis, or connect with new people fast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s why I see education as one of the greatest values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I didn\u2019t appreciate my university years until I began working. I realized that my whole job was about searching\u2014solving puzzles, just like I used to do in class. The difference was that now the puzzles were real.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And, half-jokingly, I\u2019ll say this: I began to value my education most when I worked alongside people who didn\u2019t have it. I\u2019d see a sociological problem clearly, but they couldn\u2019t even recognize it. I\u2019d say, \u201cLook, there\u2019s the issue!\u201d and they\u2019d just stare blankly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s when I understood\u2014education gives you a shared language, a framework for problem-solving. You might forget the details, but the mindset stays with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s a great question. I don\u2019t have hard data to back this up\u2014just personal observations and experience. You know, everyone is inventive in their own way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sometimes we like to romanticize ourselves, to build myths that make us feel proud. For example, we often say Ukrainians are a particularly inventive nation. Or we repeat the myth that our language is the second most melodic in the world after Italian. Someone once said it, and we still enjoy believing it. But, in reality, every nation has its own kind of ingenuity\u2014its own way of expressing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I lived in the Netherlands, I saw a society that\u2019s incredibly technologically oriented. People there\u2014from kids to adults, from theater artists to factory workers\u2014are all very hands-on. They think in terms of systems, design, and safety.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Unlike Ukraine, though, the Netherlands has stronger intergenerational inequality. Let me explain what I mean. In Ukraine, most of my classmates had parents who also went to university\u2014my dad went to KPI, I went to Shevchenko University. But in the Netherlands, only about 20 percent of my classmates\u2019 parents had higher education. Many were the first in their families to go to university.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some told me, \u201cMy father was a mechanic who started a small repair business,\u201d or, \u201cMy parents were farmers\u2014I\u2019m the first one to study.\u201d Others were children of migrants: \u201cMy parents worked in basic jobs in Turkey, and now I\u2019m the first in my family to study here.\u201d So yes, inequality exists, but it\u2019s combined with a strong technological culture.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From a very young age, Dutch children are trained to deal with real-world risks\u2014because the country literally depends on its engineering. They have to know what to do if a dam breaks, or there\u2019s flooding. Kids even take swimming exams fully clothed to prove they can survive difficult situations. That sense of preparedness becomes part of their national identity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Dutch cultivate a story about themselves: how they built dams, drained land, built ships, became an empire, and conquered the seas. It\u2019s a myth of technological mastery\u2014and that myth shapes their ingenuity. They\u2019re great engineers, architects, and mathematicians. But ironically, because their society is stable and prosperous, they don\u2019t have many crises that <em>require<\/em> creativity. So sometimes, they have nowhere to apply it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe that\u2019s why so many Dutch people go abroad\u2014to do humanitarian work, volunteer, or help during crises. Even now, during the war, many drive to Ukraine bringing aid. They seem to bring their ingenuity and compassion to places where it\u2019s needed, because at home everything already works so smoothly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The same goes for other countries. Spaniards, Americans\u2014they\u2019re all inventive, just in different ways.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the U.S., for example, many people live in suburban homes and don\u2019t rely on public infrastructure as much as we do in Ukraine. There\u2019s no small shop or service for every little thing\u2014fixing a faucet, repairing furniture, or wiring electricity costs a fortune. So people learn to do everything themselves. Americans are often underestimated; people say they\u2019re not well educated or don\u2019t know world geography\u2014but within their communities, they\u2019re incredibly capable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They build, repair, organize, and innovate constantly. Even politically, America has been extremely creative: they invented volunteer fire brigades, credit unions, democratic town halls\u2014ideas that reshaped the political systems of many other countries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, I\u2019d say every nation is creative in its own way. The difference is <em>how<\/em> that creativity is expressed and <em>why<\/em> it\u2019s needed. Ukrainians, for example, often innovate under pressure\u2014when resources are scarce, when survival is at stake. Other nations innovate in comfort, improving already stable systems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not about who\u2019s more inventive\u2014it\u2019s about the context in which that ingenuity is born.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Just a reminder that today in the \u201cArchetype of the Nation\u201d studio, we\u2019re talking about ingenuity with Tymofii Brik. Does this kind of social ingenuity\u2014the ability to find a way out of difficult situations\u2014correlate with scientific ingenuity in society?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a really good question. I think the connection between social and scientific creativity isn\u2019t linear. Every field has its own way of defining talent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In science, we often use the word <em>\u201ctalent\u201d<\/em> as a kind of shorthand. It\u2019s not something you can measure easily, but everyone understands what it means. And people often say that Ukraine has a lot of talent \u2014 and it\u2019s true. You see it in students who win international Olympiads in physics or math. Many of them are from schools like the Rusaniv Lyceum or Lyceum No. 145 in Kyiv \u2014 brilliant young people who take home gold medals.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then, what happens next? They go to Cambridge, or to the Jagiellonian University in Poland, or to the U.S. to continue their studies. So, yes, we have talent \u2014 but the question is, <em>what do we do with it?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In today\u2019s world, talent alone isn\u2019t enough. Modern science is a massive global industry that requires money, infrastructure, and teams. You need laboratories, funding, management, legal and financial systems to support the work. Even a genius can\u2019t operate in isolation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you look at how major scientific discoveries happen now, they\u2019re almost never the result of one person\u2019s ingenuity. They\u2019re made by international consortia \u2014 teams of hundreds of researchers backed by governments and institutions. Think of CERN in Europe: thirty countries pooling resources to build one huge laboratory where hundreds of physicists work together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So we have to be realistic \u2014 no matter how talented Ukrainians are, you can\u2019t compete with that kind of organized, well-funded machinery using only individual brilliance. Talent hits a ceiling when there\u2019s no system behind it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That reminds me of the Ukrainian historian Mr. Sokyrko, who studies Cossack military history. He describes the Cossacks as incredibly inventive, skilled, and adaptable \u2014 they were brilliant strategists for their time. But when the world underwent a technological and institutional revolution in the 18th and 19th centuries \u2014 new weapons, new armies, new state structures \u2014 the Cossacks suddenly became outdated. They couldn\u2019t keep up, not because they weren\u2019t talented, but because the system changed and they didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The same applies to science today. At first, individual talent is crucial \u2014 original ideas come from people. But at some point, individuals hit limits. You can\u2019t launch rockets, conduct genetic experiments, or run big data labs alone. That takes organization, management, funding, and teamwork.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it\u2019s not enough to be inventive \u2014 you also have to be a good manager, capable of working with others and finding resources. That\u2019s something Ukrainian science still struggles with. We have the brains, but the system \u2014 the management, the organization \u2014 lags far behind European and American standards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> And that raises the next question. Could it be that our ingenuity \u2014 this ability to find creative ways out of crises \u2014 actually exists <em>because<\/em> we lack a systematic approach?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Yes, I think that\u2019s a fair observation. Ingenuity is a survival tool. We\u2019ve learned to use it well, but it\u2019s also a sign that we\u2019re stuck in a cycle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We keep finding clever ways to fix problems instead of preventing them. We run out of resources, invent something to survive, then end up short of resources again. It\u2019s a loop \u2014 our ingenuity helps us endure, but not to <em>build<\/em> beyond survival.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To break that cycle, we need to become inventive in management \u2014 to rethink how we organize the state, the economy, and our institutions. We need to create systems that generate resources instead of constantly compensating for their absence. In business terms, we need what\u2019s called <em>scaling<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, Ukraine has brilliant engineers who can build innovative drones. That\u2019s great \u2014 but the real question is: how do you scale that? How do you go from one prototype to a thousand functioning units used by the military or even exported abroad?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That takes more than technical ingenuity. It requires logistics, business models, financing, partnerships \u2014 a broader culture of cooperation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> And as a leader, as the rector of the Kyiv School of Economics, how do you personally create conditions that help your students and colleagues develop ingenuity? What exactly do you do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question. I think it\u2019s fair to say that all universities, without exception, try to do this. It\u2019s our mission by definition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A university is a place where you come to learn something new \u2014 and learning new things means learning creativity. Still, unfortunately, Ukrainian education continues to carry traces of old hierarchical culture, something we probably inherited from the Soviet system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even though I belong to a newer generation and studied in independent Ukraine, I still remember what it was like at Shevchenko University. Some professors expected us to stand up when they entered the classroom. Others scolded students for something as small as sitting on a windowsill or drinking tea. I remember one case when a student brought a cup of tea into class, and the teacher shouted, \u201cWhy are you drinking tea on my table? That\u2019s disrespectful!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This mindset of strict hierarchy and \u201cmaster\u2013apprentice\u201d relations is still alive in many places. The idea that there are \u201cmasters\u201d and \u201cstudents,\u201d and you must obey, conform, and follow orders to earn your place \u2014 that\u2019s still part of our academic culture.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another big problem is the lack of university autonomy, especially financial autonomy. Often, universities can\u2019t make simple operational decisions without going through months of bureaucratic approvals. For example, if a professor needs materials for an experiment, they might have to wait half a year for permission from the treasury to release the funds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Our university, the Kyiv School of Economics, is not entirely free of such challenges either \u2014 but what we <em>do<\/em> try to do is minimize bureaucracy and hierarchy. We give both students and teachers more freedom and space for individuality and leadership.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If someone has an idea, they can act on it. For example, at our university, even undergraduate students \u2014 who haven\u2019t yet earned a degree \u2014 can teach. They can conduct seminars for other students, grade assignments, and even get paid for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some people react skeptically: \u201cHow can you let a student teach? This is a private university; we pay tuition \u2014 why should some student teach my child?\u201d But our approach is different. If a young person is bright, capable, and inspires others \u2014 why shouldn\u2019t they share what they know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are so many stereotypes that tell us what\u2019s \u201cnot allowed.\u201d We challenge those. We try to build a culture where students can express themselves, lead, and experiment. These may seem like small, simple things, but they build an environment of freedom \u2014 and freedom is what sparks creativity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We also attract many people who\u2019ve worked in top Ukrainian universities \u2014 Shevchenko, KPI, Sumy, and others. They are talented academics, but often they\u2019ve lacked one thing: freedom. When they come to us and finally get that freedom, their creativity flourishes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Let\u2019s turn to folklore. In Ukrainian folklore, ingenuity is often portrayed as the ability to resist a stronger opponent. We have the cunning fox in fairy tales, the peasant who outsmarts the devil in social stories, and the clever Cossacks in legends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But if we look at history, ingenuity didn\u2019t always lead to victory. So here\u2019s the question: is our folklore ingenuity a kind of wishful dream of triumph, or is it purely fiction \u2014 something disconnected from real life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> That\u2019s a tough question for me because I\u2019m not a historian or an anthropologist, so I\u2019ll answer more intuitively. I think people, in general, create positive myths about themselves \u2014 it helps us survive as a community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ukraine \u2014 and the many societies that have existed on this territory over the centuries \u2014 has rarely had the luxury of a strong, protective state that allowed people to live freely and reach their potential. So it\u2019s no surprise that, generation after generation, Ukrainians came to rely on ingenuity as a kind of survival tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it\u2019s also no surprise that we\u2019ve built a positive myth around it \u2014 the idea that even if we\u2019re not the strongest, the richest, or the most powerful, at least we\u2019re clever. At least there\u2019s always a hero who, though poor or humble, uses kindness, justice, and ingenuity to overcome evil and save everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s a very organic myth for us. But if you think about it, fairy tales rarely end with the words: \u201cAnd then Kotyhoroshko came back, built a successful business, and made sure no one ever kidnapped his family again.\u201d Or: \u201cIvasyk Telesyk didn\u2019t just return home \u2014 he went on to build a fair political system where no serpent could harm children ever again.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Our fairy tales usually end with a single victory \u2014 a rescue, a triumph \u2014 but not with the creation of lasting structures or institutions that would make society stronger. There\u2019s no system building, no \u201cscaling,\u201d as we\u2019d say today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think it\u2019s our generation\u2019s task to change that \u2014 to create new narratives and a new culture where success isn\u2019t just about individual triumphs but about collective progress. About how we, as a society, can grow stronger and more sustainable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Cossacks were perhaps the closest to this idea in our folklore. They didn\u2019t just fight \u2014 they built. They had the prototype of a state. We talk about Pylyp Orlyk\u2019s constitution, about Cossack diplomacy, about borders and governance \u2014 that\u2019s already a move toward the idea of a stable, recognized state.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And now, I think, this mission is being continued by those who defend us today. The heroes of this war aren\u2019t just individuals \u2014 they\u2019re collectives. We talk about Azov, Charter, the Third Assault Brigade \u2014 strong, united groups that embody shared purpose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sociological surveys show that Ukrainians now place their greatest trust in volunteers and the Armed Forces of Ukraine. That\u2019s the foundation of new institutions being formed before our eyes. If these groups endure and evolve into stable institutions, it will be a huge step forward \u2014 a sign that our society has learned to transform ingenuity from survival into sustainable strength.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> If we talk about the present, the stories of today\u2019s war already have a kind of folklore built into them. There are tales about a grandmother knocking down a drone with a jar of pickles, or a grandfather hauling off a weapon or even a tank, or a truck full of gear. Do you think this modern ingenuity grows out of our folklore heritage, or is it simply that unusual circumstances lead to unusual solutions?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong>  It\u2019s a very complicated question. In sociology\u2014and the social sciences generally\u2014we often say that correlation doesn\u2019t imply causation. Even if we observe a pattern, it\u2019s hard to say what\u2019s cause and what\u2019s effect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It does feel like each new generation of Ukrainians gets caught in the same loop. Something bad happens; a strong personality steps forward and shows leadership; others notice, rally around, and follow. And this keeps repeating with every generation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Each generation records its experience in narratives and passes them on. Modern Ukraine has people who stood on the Orange Revolution; they formed skills, memories, even mythology around it. Then the next generation came out for the Euromaidan. And now, with the latest protests, many people compared what was happening to earlier ones.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So yes\u2014I think there\u2019s a long arc here where people face new challenges but act according to a familiar pattern: a charismatic figure emerges, mobilizes others, and the pattern gets fixed, transmitted, and used as an instruction for the future. That becomes part of our cultural tradition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> We\u2019ve talked about folklore; now let\u2019s play with it a little. We have our traditional segment, the Folklore Box. Since our theme is ingenuity, today\u2019s box contains riddles.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Oh, now I\u2019m going to embarrass myself. I\u2019ve just spent an hour talking about creativity, and now I have to solve riddles.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> There will be five riddles. You can either guess them or offer a logical version.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Alright, let\u2019s try. \u201cNot gold, but the most precious.\u201d Does this have a standard folklore answer?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If it\u2019s about Ukraine, it must be tied either to family and loved ones, or to will and freedom. Will or family. What could it be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Let\u2019s go with family.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> The answer is life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong>  Life. Okay, I missed it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Here\u2019s one with a broader perspective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> From a sociological point of view, those are fundamental values. Most Ukrainians will say their top priority is security\u2014 not only their own, but others\u2019 as well. We saw that in the COVID studies: people weren\u2019t primarily afraid of dying themselves; they worried their grandmother or their children could die. That\u2019s why I leaned that way. But yes\u2014the answer is life. And not necessarily one\u2019s own, but the lives of loved ones.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> \u201cThere are two pillars, and on the pillars a barrel, and on the barrel a makitra, and on the makitra\u2014a forest.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> And I have to guess what that is. Two pillars\u2014so, two posts; something round on them; then a makitra; then a forest. That\u2019s really hard\u2014I can\u2019t even picture it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is this a real object, or a metaphor?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> This is a metaphor for a real object.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> What could look like two hairy sticks\u2014and this is folklore? Maybe some kind of castle? Two towers, and on the towers maybe hills\u2026 I don\u2019t even know. Let\u2019s say watchtowers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> It\u2019s a person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> A person! Two pillars \u2014 legs, the barrel \u2014 the body, the makitra \u2014 the head, and the forest \u2014 the hair. I could\u2019ve guessed that!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Next one: you can\u2019t weigh it on the scales, you can\u2019t buy it at the market.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> It must be something priceless and immeasurable \u2014 experience, health, or friendship. I\u2019ll say intelligence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Correct.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Okay! One out of five so far \u2014 at least I\u2019m thinking straight.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> And what is older than intelligence?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> What\u2019s older than intelligence\u2026 hmm. You know, there\u2019s a saying: foolish thoughts are rich. Maybe intelligence is something we acquire later, and before that comes error, inexperience, or instinct. What\u2019s older than intelligence? Stupidity, maybe \u2014 or error.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Alright, people say it\u2019s <em>attention<\/em>. Attention, yes \u2014 observation, experience, then reason. Makes sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> And the last riddle. White, not snow, not a shirt, but sewn; not a field, but sown.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> White, sewn, not a field but sown\u2026 This is tough. Maybe air? Or winter?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> It\u2019s connected to science.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Science, white, sown like a field\u2026 you\u2019re giving me a hint \u2014 it must be paper, maybe something written on it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> A book.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> A book! Okay, fair enough. You see, it\u2019s fascinating \u2014 this is the second time I\u2019ve missed the obvious. For some reason, I struggle to visualize objects through words. But yes, that\u2019s a great creativity exercise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Exactly. Ukrainian riddles really do train intelligence, creativity, and metaphorical thinking. There are more than a thousand collected\u2014at least in the volumes I\u2019ve seen, probably many more. Some are abstract, some concrete, but they\u2019re all a brilliant folklore genre.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> And from our conversation\u2019s point of view, I\u2019d say studying riddles from other cultures could be a great way to develop creativity. Because we all think through our own cultural symbols.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, \u201ca shirt\u201d is something deeply Ukrainian \u2014 it\u2019s part of our world of meanings. But if you gave me riddles from New Zealand or Estonia, their metaphors might be so unfamiliar that I wouldn\u2019t even grasp the question. That\u2019s a great creativity workout \u2014 immersing yourself in unfamiliar symbolic patterns.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Finally, a quick Blitz round: seven short questions, seven short\u2014or maybe not so short\u2014answers. Scarier than riddles.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What trait do you value most in people?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Not being stuffy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Lightness. And which trait do you dislike most?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u043cBeing stuffy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> What inspires you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u043cOther people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> What scares you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> I suppose it\u2019s the experience of war, after all. I\u2019m afraid of evil that goes unpunished \u2014 because if evil isn\u2019t punished, then future generations, and the ones after them, will have to suffer for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> What helped you hold on during difficult times in life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> The same thing that inspires me \u2014 people. My loved ones. My wife, and now my child.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> What would you say is the main goal or mission of your life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> It might sound a bit lofty, but I\u2019ve only recently come to this realization. I used to think my goal was about myself \u2014 to learn, to explore, to understand the world. That was enough for me.<br>But now I feel I have a mission. Since I\u2019ve already learned something, I can share it. My mission is to teach others and to make the world a little better wherever I can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> If you had to describe Ukrainians in three words, what would they be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Paradoxical \u2014 because, as we said earlier, we\u2019re a bit conservative but creative at the same time. So, paradoxical.<br>Then \u2014 energetic. There\u2019s this constant motion, something always happening here. If you look at post-Soviet history, we\u2019re the only country that keeps having revolutions, changes of elites \u2014 and even war, because we refuse to stand still. Passionate, maybe? I don\u2019t love that word \u2014 sociologists see it as unscientific, though it\u2019s common in culture. But yes, let\u2019s say <em>energy.<br><\/em> And the third \u2014 skills. I think people underestimate how much human capital Ukraine really has. We have so many skilled people \u2014 engineers, athletes, scientists. Wherever you go in the world, there\u2019s always a Ukrainian somewhere near the top. Chess, physics, engineering, sports.<br>For some reason, Ukraine isn\u2019t always recognized globally, but we\u2019re there \u2014 quietly shaping things. So yes: paradoxical, energetic, and skilled.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Thank you. It was a fascinating conversation. The last part of our show is called \u201cArtifact.\u201d We ask our guests to leave something symbolic \u2014 a keepsake for our small museum. Please tell us what you brought today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll be a proper sociologist and a proper scientist \u2014 my artifact is a book. And not even my own book. Scientists often like to quote other scientists.<br>This one is by Nicholas Christakis \u2014 he\u2019s a very well-known researcher, fascinating both as a person and as a scholar. He started out as a physician, working with terminally ill patients. Through that work he realized that social connections profoundly affect people\u2019s quality of life. When you have friends, loved ones, a caring community \u2014 even your health and outlook improve.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That insight led him to move from medicine into sociology. He began studying and teaching how human relationships shape society. His book <em>The Blueprint: The Evolutionary Origins of a Good Society<\/em> is deeply humanistic and optimistic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Christakis traces the story of humanity from ancient times to today and shows that \u2014 at the genetic, biological, and social levels \u2014 people are inclined toward goodness. We form groups to help one another, to build fair societies and democracies.<br>And even though democracy is now going through a crisis \u2014 with wars, populism, and instability \u2014 if you look at it historically, democracy is still the most resilient system. It survives and renews itself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think that\u2019s an important reminder for Ukrainians \u2014 that humanism and kindness aren\u2019t abstract ideals. They\u2019re part of who we are, built into our very nature and our social fabric.<br>So I\u2019m very glad this book will become part of your museum. And by the way, Nicholas Christakis is now a visiting professor at the Kyiv School of Economics. He\u2019s already been to Kyiv twice, giving public lectures, and he\u2019ll return again this summer and next fall.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I invite everyone to follow our social media, where we\u2019ll announce his lectures and other events from our research labs \u2014 we\u2019ll talk about science that\u2019s both fascinating and meaningful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Thank you very much for this conversation \u2014 it was truly insightful and inspiring. Friends, follow us, listen, watch, read. Until next time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tymofii Brik:<\/strong> Thank you very much \u2014 it was a pleasure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Nik Lysytskiy:<\/strong> Thank you. Friends, today our guest was Tymofii Brik \u2014 sociologist and rector of the Kyiv School of Economics. Write in the comments what stood out most to you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Do you think ingenuity is one of the key values inherent in the Ukrainian people?<br>You can watch episodes of the <em>Archetype of the Nation<\/em> project on YouTube, listen on your favorite podcast platforms, or read them on our website <strong>magicworld.com.ua.<\/strong><strong><br><\/strong> There you\u2019ll also find popular-science essays by folklorist <strong>Maryna Demediuk<\/strong>, as well as recordings of folklore works performed by renowned actors.<br>Thank you for watching \u2014 see you soon.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Guest of the episode: Tymofiy Brick \u2013 sociologist, rector of the Kyiv School of Economics. Transcript of conversations Nik Lysytskiy: Hello, I\u2019m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation\u2014a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian identity: who we were, who we\u2019ve become, and who we can be. We search for answers [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":2429,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[114,125],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2562","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-ingenuity","category-interview"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Conversation with Tymofii Brik - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/ingenuity\/rozmova-z-tymofiyem-brikom\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Conversation with Tymofii Brik - \u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Guest of the episode: Tymofiy Brick \u2013 sociologist, rector of the Kyiv School of Economics. 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We search for answers [&hellip;]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/ingenuity\/rozmova-z-tymofiyem-brikom\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"\u0410\u0440\u0445\u0435\u0442\u0438\u043f \u043d\u0430\u0446\u0456\u0457 - \u043c\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0438\u043c\u0435\u0434\u0456\u0439\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0454\u043a\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e \u0443\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u0456\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0447\u043d\u0456\u0441\u0442\u044c\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2025-10-21T20:03:17+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2025-10-21T20:04:07+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/tbrik_website.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1200\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"800\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"ancontent\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"ancontent\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"40 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/ingenuity\/rozmova-z-tymofiyem-brikom\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/an.magicworld.com.ua\/en\/ingenuity\/rozmova-z-tymofiyem-brikom\/\",\"name\":\"Conversation with Tymofii Brik - 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