Guest of the episode: Valeria Abdal, co-founder of the Children of Heroes charitable foundation.
Transcript of conversations
Nik Lysytskiy Hello! I’m Nik Lysytskiy, and this is Archetype of the Nation — a cultural project that explores the foundations of Ukrainian national identity.
Who we were, who we’ve become, what we have, and what we can be. We look for these answers in folklore and in conversations with remarkable representatives of our nation.
Today’s guest is Valeria Abdal, co-founder of the Children of Heroes charity foundation.
Hello, Valeria!
Each episode of our project is dedicated to one of the values that define the Ukrainian nation — one of the elements of our identity. And with you, we’d like to talk about a defining value such as idealism, or the pursuit of the ideal.
While preparing our episodes, we usually explore how each value is reflected in folklore, and here’s what we’ve come to understand about Ukrainian idealism:
The pursuit of the ideal is a deeply rooted feature of Ukrainian spirituality. It manifests in our high moral expectations of ourselves and others, in our belief in a just social order, and in the need to seek truth — within ourselves, in our relationships, and in the structure of the world. Yet an ideal that serves as a guiding star in culture can, in real life, turn into an unattainable height. Excessive idealization leads to inflated expectations that often become a source of pain, conflict, and tragedy.
Valeria, how do you personally understand what idealism is?
Valeria Abdal That’s more or less how I see it too. The only thing is, for me, idealism feels very close to perfectionism.
But perfectionism, I believe, doesn’t always help us in life. I’m a perfectionist myself, and I know people who actually stop doing things because of it — it delays so many processes. You want everything to be amazing, flawless, just perfect.
But that’s not how life works. Sometimes “perfect” is the worst enemy of “good.” It’s better to do something well and just do it. And it’s that same idealism we often strive for that can hold us back — we can’t finish things or we’re never satisfied with the result.
It seems to me we should learn to take joy in the process itself.
Nik Lysytskiy Since you’ve mentioned being a perfectionist, let’s start with something personal. Tell me about your childhood: what ideas about correctness or “ideality” were most valued in your family? Do you remember what was considered the model of perfection?
Valeria Abdal Let me think… I guess outward appearance was considered a kind of perfection. You had to be neatly dressed.
I definitely took that example from my mother — how much time she devoted to it. Not that my parents didn’t care about inner life or the soul, but if we talk about ideals of how things should look, it was always about external cleanliness and keeping the house in perfect order.
I think that’s where I got it from, because I’m a total neat freak — I hate any mess in my home. So, yes, that’s something that stayed with me since childhood, and it’s still an important part of who I am.
Nik Lysytskiy I asked because it’s such a typically Ukrainian attitude — I’m sure many people would agree. Was that important to you?
Valeria Abdal Yes, to some extent, of course. My mother grew up in the Soviet Union, and that narrative was always in the air: “What will people say?”
I can’t say we heard it all the time, but that phrase lingered in the background — “Modesty is the sister of talent,” “Don’t stand out,” “What will people think?” Those values and ideas have changed somewhat now, and I’m glad they have.
Nik Lysytskiy And as you grew older, did you still care about what people might say, or did you start listening more to your inner voice?
Valeria Abdal I think it’s still there, honestly. You can’t just erase it completely. Somewhere in your head you still wonder, what will people say — especially during the war, during a full-scale invasion.
For example, speaking about myself, sometimes I hold back from posting certain things on social media so as not to hurt anyone.
Now, though, I’ve shifted that thinking a bit. It’s not about what people will say about me — that I’m imperfect or somehow wrong — but rather about not hurting their emotional state.
Maybe I’ll expand on that idea later when we talk about my work at the foundation.
Nik Lysytskiy That’s probably empathy, first of all — caring about others.
Valeria Abdal Yes, first of all. It’s still there — this awareness of what others might think, say, and how it might affect them. But it’s different now from how it was in childhood.
I think that’s natural for people. We all want to be liked, to seem a bit better. I mean, I came here, I dressed up, I washed my hair — I cared about how I looked. Maybe that’s partly about what people will think or how they’ll see me. Or maybe it’s just a habit — being neat, being presentable.
So, maybe that’s where it comes from. Hard to say for sure.
Nik Lysytskiy It’s not just about appearance, though. It’s also about the results of your actions. When you do something, you think about the outcome — about what people will say.
That’s where procrastination can start: it’s easier not to do something at all because people might not like it. Or the opposite — you overdo it because you want everyone to like it. There are both extremes.
Valeria Abdal Exactly. It’s absolutely present in my life. And now that you’re saying it, I realize — yes, it’s not hidden somewhere deep down. It’s there, for sure.
Nik Lysytskiy You’ve been communicating a lot with children in recent years, as a co-founder of the foundation, and in general with people of different ages. Do you notice this narrative today — or differences between generations?
Do young people think about what people will say, the same way the older generation used to?
Valeria Abdal Oh no, I think they’re different now. They’re much more focused on themselves.
And honestly, I like that to some extent. They don’t carry that constant “what will people say” anxiety like we did. They’re more open, more daring.
I remember myself at that age. We have people of all ages working at the foundation — from their 20s to their 50s. And those in their 20s amaze me. They’re brave. They’re not afraid to express opinions during Zoom calls — and we have a lot of those since our team is spread across different cities. They speak up confidently, they can even insist on their own ideas.
When I was 20, I couldn’t do that. I’d think, oh no, I’m not smart enough, not experienced enough, not this, not that, and what will people think of me if I say what I really think?
So, yes — young people today are different, and I really like it.
Nik Lysytskiy If we think about this idea of “what will people say,” in both its positive and negative senses — in how it affects behavior — you said that young people are less fixated on it, that they think more about themselves. But doesn’t the absence of that restraint lower the bar somehow?
Valeria Abdal You mean some kind of moral standard?
Nik Lysytskiy Maybe moral, maybe personal. For example, when it comes to breaking social norms — is that connected somehow?
Valeria Abdal It is, of course, but it depends on what moral values and norms a person already has.
What I meant earlier was more about inner confidence — an inner core — which I actually think is stronger in children today. They seem less broken than we were. That’s what I was referring to.
But yes, I understand your point. There are always two sides to the coin. When you’re too focused on yourself, it can turn into unhealthy selfishness — when you stop caring about others entirely. And that’s not okay.
Balance is what really matters — as in everything else.
Nik Lysytskiy On the ACE website, one of our folklorists writes about how certain values are represented in Ukrainian folklore, including our pursuit of the ideal.
And when we talk about idealism and striving for the ideal in folklore, we see that there are always certain idealized images. We’ll talk more about folklore later, but even now it’s clear that in our traditional stories there were models to look up to — heroic warriors, Cossacks, fairy-tale heroes, song heroes — a whole gallery of ideal figures.
People often guided their behavior by those images — and by what others might say. It’s a bit folkloric in itself. That’s how people once lived in villages — guided by how the neighbors would judge them.
So, if today’s youth grow up without this folklore foundation or social guidance, are we losing those ideal models that once inspired people to strive for something higher?
Or maybe those ideals are outdated now, and we need to form new ones — new ideals for a new generation. Perhaps young people are already doing that in their own way.
Valeria Abdal We all had our ideals, our idols, our reference points. They weren’t always folkloric, of course.
So I think young people today are simply choosing something different for themselves as the ideals they want to reach. But it’s worth talking about what these new ideals actually are.
Because so many of them are influenced — or imposed — by marketing, advertising, and social media. The “ideal” picture we see on Instagram is such a distorted reflection of reality. Usually, it has little to do with real life.
But we see those polished images, and teenagers look at them and compare themselves to them.
Nik Lysytskiy Our goal here isn’t to preach or dictate anything, but to ask questions — to open up a conversation.
We want to draw attention to the fact that we, as Ukrainians, have certain values — like idealism and the pursuit of the ideal — that are deeply rooted in us.
They’ve been part of our identity since ancient times, which we can clearly see in folklore. But maybe the ideals we see in folklore are no longer relevant today.
Maybe we’re evolving, living in a modern world, and searching for new benchmarks, new values.
So, together with our guests — and with our viewers and listeners in the comments — we want to explore what these values are today, how they’re expressed in our lives, whether they’re still meaningful.
And if not, then what new values will form the foundation of our society and identity?
Valeria Abdal Absolutely. I really want our youth to have national dignity as their main point of reference.
I want our language to be respected and heard everywhere — in cities, towns, and villages.
I want our heroes to be honored.
And I want that sense of national dignity, despite modern global trends, to remain strong within us. That’s my wish.
How can we achieve this? It probably has to begin in education — starting from school.
We need to learn more about our ethnicity, our mythology, our history, and read more literature.
For example, I’m from Odesa, and I didn’t have that strong pro-Ukrainian foundation in my childhood.
Only now am I consciously looking for it — though I’ve always felt deeply Ukrainian.
That’s why I really want our education system to build a strong foundation of love for our country — for our history, for our mythology — from early childhood.
Nik Lysytskiy That’s exactly what we’re trying to do — through this project and through our Magic World initiative — to build that foundation, to introduce people to mythology and folklore.
Dear viewers and listeners, on our YouTube channel you can find many episodes about our mythical heroes and legends. This year we released a new season of The Magic World of Ukrainian Folklore, where you can explore our truly magical world — myths, legends, songs, proverbs, sayings, fairy tales, and much more.
So after watching this episode, I invite you to visit our YouTube channel and discover more of those stories.
Valeria Abdal I’ll share a small confession — only now am I finally reading Kotsiubynskyi’s You Can’t Forget Your Ancestors properly. It was part of our school curriculum, but somehow it completely passed me by.
Now I’m reading it — and there’s so much mythology in it! Mavkas, chugaisters, forest spirits.
It’s fascinating to revisit such works when you’re older and on a different level of understanding.
So my wish for everyone, no matter your age, is to go back and pick up those school books you might have missed.
If something passed you by back then — it’s never too late to rediscover it. It’s absolutely worth it.
Nik Lysytskiy You can also check out the book The Frost Horde from Kyiv — the link to its website is in the description of this video.
It’s a fascinating universe inspired by Ukrainian mythology.
You’ve worked in marketing for over ten years, so you understand very well how trends are formed and how ideals are created — ideals that people are supposed to strive for in order to buy something.
And now, in our virtual world of social media — Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and so on — everything seems to revolve around showing us a perfect world we’re supposed to chase, so that we’ll spend money to look like that image.
How do you feel about that?
Valeria Abdal How do I feel? It’s already an inseparable part of our lives. And it didn’t start today — it’s been that way since the first advertising campaigns decades ago.
Everything is built on the same idea: if you buy our product or our service, you’ll become more perfect.
That’s the consumer world — it’s how big companies make money.
I think the main thing is to distinguish between what we truly need and what we don’t.
I sometimes fall for advertising too — those pop-ups on social media. Suddenly, I start thinking I need that bag or some little gadget I’d never even considered before.
So yes, it works — unfortunately.
Or maybe fortunately, in some cases, because we now have many things that didn’t exist when we were kids, and they actually make our lives easier.
For example, I finally bought a robot vacuum cleaner — honestly, it’s the best purchase I’ve made this year.
So if that’s what advertising does, fine.
But I think you meant something deeper — how this all affects us as people.
Nik Lysytskiy Yes, I was referring more to the pursuit of this perfect image that big companies create.
Not about individual products, but about the lifestyle that’s constantly shown to us through social media — the millionaire bloggers, the perfect photos, the constant smiles, vacations, luxury cars, and so on.
All of that becomes an ideal for a wide audience, for millions of followers who start striving to match that image.
And here, the ideals get replaced — people chase an image, something completely material.
They don’t know what’s actually behind it, while for those bloggers it’s their work, their business.
But for their audience, it becomes a picture — something they start to aspire to themselves.
And this creates, if not pure materialism, then at least a kind of substitution of true values.
Valeria Abdal Exactly. That’s absolutely true. And I see it as a real danger — this substitution of values.
Because no thing can give you lasting happiness.
Even if you buy that car you saw from your favorite blogger — it won’t make you a better or happier person.
Maybe for five minutes, while you post it in your stories or show it to someone else — but that’s it.
Unfortunately, many people are losing their authenticity.
Not everyone, of course, but the trend is there — people are forgetting what’s real.
And I think there will soon be a shift — a new demand for reality, for authenticity, for showing ourselves as we really are. Without makeup, without filters, without perfect lighting.
I believe this will soon become the new benchmark.
In fact, it might even become trendy to show yourself as you are — messy hair, ordinary life, daily reality.
Because, in the end, we’re all just human.
No one has a perfect life or a perfect family where no one argues and everything runs smoothly.
That simply doesn’t exist.
So yes — I think society’s demand will soon change.
People will want authenticity again.
Nik Lysytskiy Have there been times in your life when you were striving for something you thought was ideal — and then, when you finally reached it, you realized it wasn’t what you needed at all?
Valeria Abdal Oh yes, absolutely. I really wanted to work at a particular company — a radio station I’d listened to since childhood. I always imagined that one day I’d be a radio host there.
And when the opportunity finally came, I tried it — but it turned out to be one of those shiny things that look perfect from the outside, while inside it didn’t align at all with my values, with my sense of harmony.
So everything ended up completely different from what I imagined.
Nik Lysytskiy How did you feel then?
Valeria Abdal Terrible. I felt awful for about five months.
It was that tearing feeling — like, this is my dream job, and yet I’m miserable here.
The team was toxic, the conditions were bad, they treated you like a machine.
And I just didn’t know what to do. There was this internal dissonance that I finally decided to end.
I said, “Sorry, but I can’t keep doing this — it doesn’t align with what I believe in.”
Nik Lysytskiy Then you had to find a new dream, a new ideal?
Valeria Abdal Yes, though my dreams are usually not about things like jobs.
They’re more about relationships — family, children, those intangible things.
Sometimes I even write down conditional plans for the year, and they always include things like keeping a healthy relationship with my husband and kids, spending more time with them, sharing emotions.
I actually write those things down. I want to remain the kind of person who keeps those intangible goals on the list — because if you don’t, if you don’t consciously set them for yourself, you can lose them.
You start focusing only on material goals.
Nik Lysytskiy I’ll remind our viewers that today in the Archetype of the Nation studio we’re talking with Valeria Abdal about the pursuit of the ideal.
Have there been moments in your life when your pursuit of the ideal turned into pressure — either internal, from perfectionism, or external?
Valeria Abdal External — probably not. My toughest critic has always been myself.
So yes, the pressure is internal.
I constantly think, even after I’ve already done something, No, that could’ve been better. That could’ve been said differently. That could’ve been done differently.
It’s always there, all the time.
It’s that inner perfectionism I mentioned earlier — and it really gets in the way sometimes.
Nik Lysytskiy Was there ever a time when you had to give up your ideals?
Valeria Abdal Give them up completely?
Nik Lysytskiy Or from the ideal of a friend.
Valeria Abdal I would say yes. For example, in family life. As I said, not everything can be perfect.
There can’t be a perfectly clean apartment and perfectly happy children at the same time.
If I spend all day cleaning, the kids will definitely be neglected — either unfed, or just without attention.
Or my husband will feel left out.
So sometimes you really have to step back from your ideals — or simply accept that we’re all human.
Maybe there will be an argument somewhere, or a child won’t do their homework perfectly, or will get a less-than-perfect grade. But that’s okay.
It’s not that I’ve abandoned my ideals — it’s more about realizing that no one is perfect.
Nothing in life is flawless.
Even today, maybe I’m in a bad mood, or my husband, or my child — and tomorrow it’ll be different.
You just have to notice it, accept it.
And yes, sometimes you have to make compromises.
Because we’re told that an ideal relationship means never arguing, never compromising — that compromising means betraying yourself.
But I completely disagree.
I think healthy compromise is essential — in a family, in any long-term relationship.
It may not look ideal by someone else’s standards, but it works.
And that’s what matters.
Nik Lysytskiy Your Instagram says that you’re a wedding officiant.
Valeria Abdal Yes. And not just says — I’ve actually been officiating weddings for over 13 years.
It’s my hobby, something that gives me energy and inspiration.
Because when you help create that unforgettable moment for two people — for them and their guests, friends, and family — it always fills you with joy and inspiration.
Nik Lysytskiy Weddings during wartime — some might say that’s escapism, even frivolous.
Others might say it’s an expression of strength, hope, and love.
Where do you stand?
Valeria Abdal For me, it’s definitely a sign of hope — strong and enduring.
Because love should always live and flourish, even in wartime.
And as someone who officiates weddings, I often see military couples.
Isn’t it beautiful when a soldier can take a short leave, come to Odesa or any other city, and have a wedding ceremony?
It’s wonderful that people still make space and time for love.
So yes, I see it as a manifestation of hope — and faith in the future.
Nik Lysytskiy In fact, this desire to live in spite of death is probably also a reflection of our pursuit of the ideal.
Valeria Abdal Yes, absolutely.
Love heals. Love gives hope and faith.
We can’t live without it.
You can’t just turn off your emotions, or say, “We’ll pause love until the war is over.”
That’s not how life works.
So I’m very much in favor of such celebrations.
Of course, there are discussions in society — about how weddings should be held now, or how lavishly they’re celebrated during wartime.
That’s a different question.
Nik Lysytskiy Yes, because you can simply go and sign the papers.
Valeria Abdal Exactly. You can even have a small ceremony with just family and friends, without all the flashy luxury.
And I completely understand why it triggers some people — when every day we’re raising money for night-vision devices, or for cars for the military, and there’s never enough — and then someone throws a lavish wedding worth hundreds of thousands of hryvnias, or even dollars.
So yes, emotions and sensitivities in society are very high right now.
I don’t really know how to avoid that.
Maybe, honestly, it’s better not to flaunt it so openly if we’re living in a country at war.
I can agree with that.
But still, you shouldn’t hide real emotions or true love.
Nik Lysytskiy Yes, because what we’re really talking about is not the fact of getting married, but the scale of the celebration — the big show, the expensive party.
And, going back to the question of what people will say — maybe those who host such grand weddings simply don’t care what people think.
They have their own ideals, their own worldview.
But someone else might look at that and say: how can they celebrate so extravagantly while others nearby are losing their loved ones, or when we’re collecting donations for things soldiers desperately need?
So here we see this contrast, this clash between different ideals.
Valeria Abdal Yes, there really is a kind of dissonance — and during the full-scale war, it’s felt even more sharply.
I completely agree.
Even if you have the money and really want a big wedding, I think it’s better not to showcase it too publicly right now — because it can hurt others’ feelings.
Although people will also say: “When, if not now? When are we supposed to live?”
You see, there are always two sides to the coin.
So, as always, it’s about balance.
Celebrate — but maybe don’t broadcast it everywhere.
By the way, the couples whose weddings I officiate are usually very sincere.
Maybe it’s just that like attracts like, but I always meet couples who do it for themselves, for their loved ones — not to show off.
And I really appreciate that.
Nik Lysytskiy If we look at weddings more cynically — even in peacetime — isn’t the grand ceremony itself a kind of game, a performance of a “perfect life”?
Valeria Abdal A game of perfection?
Yes, of course, to some extent.
Because people want to believe that this is the one day — you get married once, and you want it to be perfect, because you might never have this moment again.
So you want perfect photos, a perfect celebration, everything perfect.
And that’s understandable — up to a point.
The main thing is to do it for yourself, not for someone else, not to prove anything.
That’s the only real rule I’d follow:
do it for yourself, not for show.
Nik Lysytskiy Speaking of traditions in the context of weddings — in a traditional Ukrainian wedding, the celebration took place in several stages.
It began with the engagement and could last for weeks.
Usually weddings were held in the fall, after the harvest — when people finally had both food to share and reasons to celebrate.
And this entire process, from the engagement to the wedding itself, followed a strict ritual structure — because in ancient times, the two families were often practically rivals or even enemies.
That is, these could be completely unfamiliar families from different villages, who might even have been at odds with each other.
And when people from these two families met, fell in love, and wanted to start a family, the wedding rituals were aimed not so much at reconciling them, but at bringing the families together — helping them reach mutual understanding.
In essence, it wasn’t just an act of love between two individuals — it was a social act between two clans that needed to meet, agree, and learn to coexist.
That’s why a traditional Ukrainian wedding was always so large-scale — lasting three days, sometimes a whole week, involving relatives, friends, and even the whole village.
Historically, it was a necessary process that allowed everyone to connect and build relationships.
Modern large weddings, however, have lost that original meaning — they’re no longer about bringing families together.
So the scale today often serves just to create a spectacle.
To “fraternize,” as it used to be said. But now, without that element, the grandeur of modern weddings often turns into just a beautiful picture.
Valeria Abdal Yes, it’s more about showing a certain financial status — “we can afford it.”
Or maybe people just want to make this day perfect, because they believe there won’t be another like it.
It depends — there are many reasons.
But personally, I think now is not the time for excess.
Truly, it’s not the moment to show off.
Nik Lysytskiy Do you think there are many people today for whom striving for the ideal is simply a normal way of life?
Valeria Abdal Well, I haven’t read any statistics on it, but if the ideal for them is those perfect Instagram pictures, then yes — there are probably many.
But if the ideal means searching for inner qualities and values, then unfortunately, I meet far fewer such people now.
Nik Lysytskiy Can we say there’s something distinctly Ukrainian about our idealism?
Something inherited — maybe from our ancestors, our parents, our national character — that sets us apart?
Valeria Abdal Yes, I truly believe that what sets us apart is our national dignity — something I’ve already mentioned.
It’s been built up in us over generations, passed down, nurtured.
It’s within us — we just need to strengthen it, to keep developing it.
I think that’s what distinguishes Ukrainians from other nations — this deep sense of dignity.
Nik Lysytskiy Is there danger in becoming fanatical about pursuing the ideal?
Valeria Abdal Of course. The answer is obvious.
Anything taken to an extreme, anything fanatical, loses balance.
And when you lose balance, you lose harmony.
Fanatical pursuit of perfection always leads to constant dissatisfaction.
Nik Lysytskiy How do you know when to stop?
Valeria Abdal When you start feeling that it’s destroying your life — or the lives of those around you.
When your husband or children stop seeing you, when your family’s little ecosystem starts falling apart.
When you’re suffering from it — that’s when you need to stop.
Because otherwise, you’ll simply burn out.
Whether it’s work or life in general — burnout comes easily.
And when you wake up one morning and feel like there’s no energy left, that’s the first alarm bell.
That’s when it’s time to stop.
Nik Lysytskiy We talked about burnout with another guest, Andrii Kozinchuk.
That conversation was really insightful — I recommend watching it.
There’s a lot there about what to do when you feel burned out, and whether it’s even possible not to burn out at all.
Valeria Abdal By the way, I’m sure it is possible.
You just need to listen to yourself, to your inner state.
It’s important to take care of yourself and pay attention to how things make you feel.
If you no longer feel satisfaction from what you do, if you feel drained — that’s already a bad sign.
Nik Lysytskiy In addition to being a wedding officiant, you now devote most of your time to the Children of Heroes Foundation.
Tell us how you got into volunteering and charity work.
Valeria Abdal Actually, I devote all my working time to it.
It’s my full-time job — though I’d even call it a mission, not a job.
How did it start?
It started on February 24, when life split into “before” and “after.”
Before that, I worked in marketing, and later I tried launching my own YouTube channel.
And, again returning to our topic, I tried to do everything perfectly.
But when the full-scale invasion began, everything changed.
It made me completely rethink all my previous ideals, all my ambitions and goals — and realize that everything I was doing before had lost its meaning.
I remember trying to maintain social media — posting about a new YouTube episode, scheduling ten stories a day because that was the SMM plan.
But when the war started, all that suddenly felt meaningless.
You realize that people need help, not more posts.
And that’s how it all began — in March 2022, we launched the foundation to help, in my opinion, the most vulnerable group — children.
Because children can’t defend themselves.
They can’t earn money or support themselves.
And these are children who lost one or both parents — children carrying deep trauma.
So all my old ideals collapsed in one day, and I built new ones — around something that truly matters.
Nik Lysytskiy And now, working with the foundation, how do you find balance?
Between wanting to do everything perfectly for the children, and the need to reach as many of them as possible?
Valeria Abdal I’ve realized that perfection simply doesn’t exist here.
How can you even measure what “perfect help” looks like?
Here it’s about your inner drive — to do something or not to do it.
I feel that I want to help, and that’s what keeps me going.
If I could scale it more — great.
But I also understand it’s impossible to reach everyone.
Yet even if you help one child, you’ve already changed one life.
It’s a drop in the ocean — but if enough people add their drops, we can create our own ocean.
Nik Lysytskiy When the foundation was created, did you have a vision of an ideal goal or result — what you wanted to achieve?
Valeria Abdal It’s hard to talk about an ideal result, because at the beginning of the war we couldn’t even imagine the scale of what was coming.
In the first months, we thought it would all end soon — that we’d only have a few wards.
But now we have 14,000 children under our care — children who’ve lost one or both parents.
Most are children of military personnel, but there are also children of civilians.
Back then, I couldn’t have believed such numbers were possible.
So our main task became building the system and structure of our work — to make it fully organized and transparent.
That’s essential for building trust and cooperation with major funds and donors.
And that’s where some of our perfectionism shows — because we truly aim for high standards.
Every child registered in our foundation receives support.
We have our own profile in the CRM system, which we update almost every week — earlier it was weekly, now it’s every two weeks. We enter new data there regularly. In other words, we’ve built a system that now allows us to scale our work.
But it’s impossible to say that we ever predicted there would be this many children.
What we always wanted — and still want — is for our mission to be long-term.
That was written into the foundation’s vision from day one.
Because we didn’t want to be the kind of organization that simply distributes some one-time humanitarian aid and says, “Here, we helped.”
No — our goal has always been to provide comprehensive, long-term support, until each child turns 18.
And even then, we continue to help during that transition year until 19.
So, if a child is just one year old when they join our foundation, they will receive help until adulthood.
That’s the long-term mission we’ve built and that we follow faithfully.
We really want everything to work out.
Of course, it takes a lot of work — and a lot depends on funding, finding donors, securing financial stability.
So that’s another part of what we constantly do.
Nik Lysytskiy How do you feel when your desire to do everything perfectly and achieve the best result runs into the harsh limits of reality?
Valeria Abdal Honestly, I feel guilty.
For example, when I see a need among our families that we can’t meet — I feel responsible.
And that guilt pushes me to look for new ways to make it happen somehow.
Nik Lysytskiy Are there any particular stories — maybe about one child, or a few — when you realized that idealism, that pursuit of the ideal, really works?
Valeria Abdal Oh, we have so many such stories.
But I guess I’d first ask — what does a “perfect story” mean?
For me, it’s when I see a child smiling.
A child who has lost someone, who’s been through trauma and pain, but whose dream suddenly comes true — and I know it happened thanks to our foundation.
That’s perfection for me.
We help children fulfill their dreams — often very simple, very human ones.
For example, to meet their idol.
We’re running a joint project with the “1+1” TV channel, where we make such meetings happen.
There were so many stars involved — Monatik, DOROFEEVA, other singers, football players.
I remember one story vividly: a girl who practiced fencing dreamed of meeting Olga Kharlan.
We arranged it as a complete surprise — she had no idea.
And when she saw her idol standing in front of her, her eyes filled with disbelief and joy — that moment is indescribable.
Maybe that’s not what people would call a perfect story, but what could be more perfect than a child’s happiness?
What could be better than a child smiling because her dream came true?
Those are the moments when I know we’re doing the right thing.
And there are many others — like when we help children with their education, and they get into the universities they dreamed of.
Because our support is very comprehensive.
We don’t just provide humanitarian or psychological help — though we have 30 psychologists working full-time at the foundation.
We also offer medical, legal, and social assistance.
We organize summer camps — I’ve visited some myself — where children can simply be children again, even during the war.
And seeing that — the laughter, the playfulness, the joy — that’s priceless.
We also focus heavily on education: helping our wards prepare for university, apply for scholarships, and even study abroad.
So when you see a child enter the university they wanted — or study in another country thanks to your help — that’s an amazing feeling.
That, to me, is the ideal.
Those are the moments when you realize you’ve truly changed someone’s life.
Nik Lysytskiy That’s probably true — if we’re talking about ideals, then helping a child who, without your support, might have lost their childhood… and you give that childhood back. You bring back joy, open new possibilities.
That smiling, happy child — that’s the ideal image truly worth striving for.
Valeria Abdal Yes, I completely agree with that.
Nik Lysytskiy What inspires you most in the foundation’s work?
I think I already know the answer.
Valeria Abdal Yes, that’s exactly what gives me endless energy and inspiration to keep going — even though it’s emotionally heavy work.
When you speak with families who have lost loved ones, when you hear their stories…
I’m not a psychologist by training, but when a mother trusts you enough to talk for an hour and a half — crying, opening up about the most intimate moments of her life — that’s incredibly powerful.
It’s hard emotionally, but at the same time, you realize that in that moment, you have become a support for this person.
You’ve become someone they can lean on.
And from that realization — that you can be someone’s support — you grow stronger yourself.
You feel like wings are growing inside you.
Nik Lysytskiy What values or ideals would you like to pass on to children through the foundation’s work and your interaction with them?
Valeria Abdal Once again — our Ukrainian dignity.
The sense that, no matter what life circumstances they face, every child deserves the best — the best education, the best opportunities, simply the right to be happy in this world.
Nik Lysytskiy In our fairy tales, we have many ideal heroes and heroines.
Who, in your opinion, is the ideal hero for Ukrainians today — a modern ideal?
Valeria Abdal I think that for many Ukrainians today, our defenders are the true heroes and heroines.
You could even trace how that image has evolved.
At the beginning of the war, for many people — and I think it’s fair to say this — the hero was President Zelenskyy.
Because he didn’t flee, he stayed, and that gave the nation strength and hope.
Then, over time, that image transformed — now, for most of us, the heroes are our soldiers, those who stand at the front every single day.
For me, they’re no longer abstract figures or public personalities — they’re real people I know, our defenders who protect the borders of our country, our dignity, and our independence.
I admire every person who’s ready to give their life for our future.
I admire women serving on the front lines, unafraid to face danger.
I admire military medics.
I admire volunteers who risk their lives evacuating people from frontline areas.
You know, despite everything our country is going through, it’s inspiring that we have such worthy examples — such worthy heroes to look up to.
Nik Lysytskiy We can also recall the story of the Ghost of Kyiv — how the real deeds of warriors very quickly became a legend, essentially turning into a modern myth.
It’s probably the same process that took place thousands of years ago when real acts became stories that survived as fairy tales or myths.
We witnessed that same process of myth-making when the Ghost of Kyiv appeared — a living example of how real heroism transforms into collective legend.
The story spread rapidly both in Ukraine and abroad. Even in Japan, a manga about the Ghost of Kyiv was published — a sign of how deeply it resonated globally.
The Japanese, who have a sharp sense for both technology and world trends, created this manga just weeks after the legend appeared in 2022.
It’s an amazing example of how a real story becomes part of folklore and continues to expand our modern national mythology.
I also want to touch on Ukrainian idealism in the context of the wider world.
We often create expectations and ideals for ourselves — and sometimes assume that the rest of the world should meet those expectations.
Meanwhile, the world, especially in politics, tends to operate in a more pragmatic way.
So what happens when our ideals don’t find resonance in the real world?
How should we, as Ukrainians, manage our ideals and our striving for the ideal so that we don’t become disappointed when faced with reality?
Valeria Abdal Well, first of all, to avoid disappointment — don’t get too enchanted in the first place.
What I mean is, don’t set inflated expectations from others.
In my opinion, we need to rely on ourselves first and ask: what have I done?
I see many people who constantly complain — about the state, about the world, about others — expecting someone else to fix things.
But often, we can’t even help ourselves.
We can’t make small improvements — in our communities, in our surroundings — or help a neighbor, or even change a lightbulb in our own building, metaphorically speaking.
Yet we expect someone to come and solve everything for us.
I believe we need to set the bar for ourselves first — to ask: what have I done for myself, for others, for my country?
If you haven’t done anything, why should someone abroad come and solve your problems?
Maybe it sounds tough, but I think it’s the right mindset.
That’s how we’ll grow — when we start changing things around us with our own hands.
Nik Lysytskiy So that’s a kind of idealism focused on perfectionism toward oneself — rather than expecting an ideal situation or ideal treatment from others.
Valeria Abdal Exactly.
Because expectations are what disappoint us the most.
I realized this when, at one point, all of us were constantly waiting — waiting for the full-scale war to end.
At some point, I realized that constantly living in that state of waiting — expecting someone else to do something — was simply destructive for me.
So I decided to focus on myself, on my family, and on the work I’m doing.
Maybe, on the scale of the whole universe, it’s just a drop in the ocean — but at least I can make my own life better, my children’s lives better, and hopefully help someone else through the foundation.
And that’s not a small thing.
Because even one fate, one life that you can help, change, or save — that’s already a lot.
Nik Lysytskiy I suggest we play our traditional game called “Folklore Chest.”
Today, our folklore chest contains works related to idealism, ideal heroes, and the pursuit of perfection.
Here’s how it works: slides will appear on the screen, each showing two options.
One of them is the real title of a Ukrainian folk work — a fairy tale, a song, or a duma.
The other one is made up.
You’ll need to guess which one is real.
Valeria Abdal Okay, fair warning — I’m not too strong in folklore, but let’s see.
I’ll rely more on intuition here.
Nik Lysytskiy All right, let’s start.
First slide — “The Cat and the Pea” or “The Cat and the Seed.”
Valeria Abdal Well, that one’s obvious — “The Cat and the Pea.”
Nik Lysytskiy That’s right. “The Cat and the Pea” is actually one of our Ukrainian fairy tales — about an ideal hero in his own way, and a very well-known one.
Next question.
A duma about “Cossack Holota” or a duma about “Cossack Hrobka”?
Valeria Abdal A duma about “Cossack Holota.”
Nik Lysytskiy Correct. “Cossack Holota” is a fearless Ukrainian warrior — poor, but honorable and brave.
That’s our true Cossack hero.
Next one.
“The Sun Rises Over Siberia” or “The Dawn Shines on the Dnipro”?
Valeria Abdal And “Siberia” here means…?
Nik Lysytskiy Yes, Siberia.
Valeria Abdal Then I’ll definitely choose the Dnipro. I like the Dnipro better — so my answer is “The Dawn Shines on the Dnipro.”
Nik Lysytskiy Unfortunately, that’s incorrect.
The correct answer is “The Sun Rises Over Siberia,” and the hero of that song is Ustym Karmaliuk.
Let’s move on.
Another duma: “A Duma About Ivan Bohun” or “A Duma About Oles Solomakha”?
Valeria Abdal Well, at least I’ve heard of Ivan Bohun.
Nik Lysytskiy Exactly — because Ivan Bohun was a real historical figure.
And finally, the last question — and it should be an easy one.
“The Legend of Dovbush” or “The Legend of Kulish”?
Valeria Abdal “The Legend of Dovbush.”
Nik Lysytskiy Exactly. Dovbush is another idealized legendary hero — the leader of the opryshky.
There are many legends about him. He’s one of the truly iconic figures of Western Ukraine.
Valeria Abdal I remember the Dovbush Rock near Yaremche.
Nik Lysytskiy Yes, and not only there — there are several “Dovbush Rocks” across the Carpathians.
After our folklore game, let’s talk a bit more about folklore itself.
Here’s my question: how would you explain to children why, in Ukrainian fairy tales, the hero always has to go through so many trials before reaching the goal?
It’s a structure found in many heroic or magical tales, but in Ukrainian folklore especially — like in The Cat and the Pea — the hero goes through betrayal, struggle, and hardship before success.
How would you explain this to kids?
Valeria Abdal I’d probably say it’s a reflection — a sketch — of real life.
Because in real life, too, to achieve anything meaningful, you have to go through challenges.
I tell my son the same: not everything happens with a snap of your fingers.
If you want something, you need to accept that there might be failures — but you must get back up and keep moving forward.
If that goal is truly yours, you can’t focus on the setbacks — you need to find even more strength within yourself to continue.
That’s why, to me, these trials are a kind of life lesson.
Nik Lysytskiy An educational model.
Valeria Abdal Exactly — a teaching model that shows that not everything in life comes easily.
I don’t want to sound like an old lady saying “life is a constant test,” but it often really is.
Nik Lysytskiy Another recurring motif in folklore is heroism — when a hero’s willingness to give their life for an ideal or goal is glorified.
Do you think that’s a good thing or a bad thing?
Valeria Abdal I think it again reflects our real Ukrainian history.
It’s always been like that — we’ve constantly had to sacrifice our lives for freedom, for our land, for the preservation of our national identity.
Nik Lysytskiy Speaking of folklore narratives, do you think children today can still learn certain ideals from folklore?
Or are they now more focused on modern images and popular culture?
Valeria Abdal Children today are definitely more influenced by modern ideals — by what they see on their gadgets every day.
But we mustn’t forget our roots, our history, and the folklore figures that shaped our culture.
At the very least, children should know them.
Nik Lysytskiy We invite you, our viewers, to share your impressions of today’s conversation in the comments.
Tell us what you think about Ukrainian idealism — do we still have it today?
Is it different from the idealism or the vision of ideal heroes found in folklore?
Share your thoughts below — your perspective matters.
And now, the Blitz Interview.
Seven short questions — and seven short (or not-so-short) answers.
What character traits do you value most in people?
Valeria Abdal Kindness, compassion, and honesty.
Not just one — you see, I named three.
Nik Lysytskiy And which traits do you consider the worst?
Valeria Abdal Aggression, anger, and envy — those are, in my opinion, deeply destructive qualities.
Nik Lysytskiy What inspires you?
Valeria Abdal My work at the foundation inspires me a lot. My children inspire me too — their emotions from simple things, the way they react to moments I’ve long stopped noticing. It reminds me how much happiness there really is all around us, and that you can be happy with the simplest things.
Nik Lysytskiy What scares you?
Valeria Abdal Uncertainty.
Nik Lysytskiy What has helped you through the hardest moments in life?
Valeria Abdal My family.
Nik Lysytskiy What is the main goal or mission of your life?
Valeria Abdal First and foremost, I want my children to grow up happy, healthy, well-educated, and confident that they can handle anything. I want them to be independent but always feel the support of their family and my love. I hope that even when they’re adults, we’ll remain close and warm — not just as family, but as friends.
That’s about my own children.
And of course, I also think about the children of our foundation. I don’t know how much I can influence every one of them, but I want them to feel happy no matter what, to believe in themselves, to develop their potential, and to become strong, kind representatives of Ukrainian society in the future.
Nik Lysytskiy If you had to choose three words to describe Ukrainians, what would they be?
Valeria Abdal Freedom, dignity, and resilience. Definitely.
Nik Lysytskiy Thank you.
Valeria Abdal Thank you.
Nik Lysytskiy And now our “Artifact” segment, where guests leave something behind as a memento of themselves.
Today, in our studio, we have Valeria Abdal — co-founder of the Children of Heroes Foundation — and I believe you’ve brought something connected with the foundation.
Valeria Abdal Yes, of course. These are socks — but not ordinary socks. They’re branded with our foundation’s logo. By the way, I have the same logo here on my necklace.
Why aren’t they simple? Because the designs are based on drawings made by the children of our foundation.
They’re bright and colorful, but if you look closely, you’ll see tanks and scenes of war — things the children have seen and live through.
Even though the colors are vivid and cheerful, the themes are still about war. And I want to wish that our children will soon draw only peace — only dreams and kindness.
So I’m leaving these socks here in the studio as a symbol and a wish.
And I hope that next time I visit, the socks will be covered in drawings of peace — of hope, joy, and light.
Nik Lysytskiy I truly hope so too.
I think all our viewers and listeners — in fact, all Ukrainians — share this wish.
Thank you very much for this gift. We’ll keep it for our museum.
Thank you for joining us today.
It was a real pleasure to talk with you on “Archetype of the Nation.”
And I wish you the greatest possible, most inspiring results in your foundation’s work.
Valeria Abdal Let’s just agree on good results.
Because when you aim only for perfection, you can easily lose something — satisfaction, or even the result itself.
So I prefer to focus on doing things well, and doing them with meaning.
Thank you for inviting me to this podcast.
It’s a very original format, with deep and unusual questions.
I wish you inspiration and strength to keep developing this project — it’s truly great.
Nik Lysytskiy Thank you.
Friends, today our guest was Valeria Abdal — co-founder of the Children of Heroes charity foundation.
Write in the comments what you found most meaningful or interesting in this conversation.
Do you think the pursuit of the ideal is one of the key values inherent to Ukrainians?
Remember, you can watch all episodes of the “Archetype of the Nation” project on YouTube, listen to them on your favorite podcast platforms, and read them at magicworld.com.ua.
There you’ll also find popular science essays by folklorist Maryna Demediuk and recordings of folklore works performed by well-known actors.
Thank you for watching — and see you next time.
